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Strange Behavior 2

T

Tom Brown

#1
Today, I noticed I had six NEW (Unread) messages in my Sent Items that were
messages I sent a few days ago. Also, all of these message titles are now
stuck in my Outbox but when I click on the header, I see "Message Not
Found." "The contents of this message cannot be found." I am able to
delete these messages from my Outbox but they should not be there in
the first place as they were sent days ago. Again, they do not get sent
again as they have already been sent. I am using a POP3 account with the
mail.messagingengine.com server on a Fastmail.net account. I will also let
them know of the problem although I think it probably originates in WLM.

The other strange thing is that they stand out in the Sent Items list
because they are all addressed TO ME instead of the people they were
originally sent to. I am certain they were sent and received because I have
discussed them with the recipients.

This has happened a few times before and it really makes me not trust WLM. I
consider this a fundamental operational problem in a mainstream program.

I believe I have the latest version and I am not aware it is a beta product.
I have Version 2009 (Build 14.0.8064.0206).

Any help appreciated.

Tom
 

My Computer

T

Tom Brown

#2
One more thing related to the previous post.

Although I now have 6 messages apparently stuck in my Outbox, I see the (3)
beside the Outbox folder name. That implies that there are three messages
in there that are Unread (or unSent). But, when I click on the folder, none
of them are highlighted.

The other strange thing is that of the 6 messages stuck in the Outbox, if I
right-click on all of them, on 3 messages, I see that I am able to 'Mark as
Unread' and on 3 I have the option to 'Mark as Read.' None of them look
Unread in the Reading Pane. If I choose to Mark as Read, that counter (3)
beside the Outbox folder decrements when I "read" each message.

Tom





"Tom Brown" <NoSpam@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news:ed6KnffkJHA.4912@xxxxxx

> Today, I noticed I had six NEW (Unread) messages in my Sent Items that
> were
> messages I sent a few days ago. Also, all of these message titles are now
> stuck in my Outbox but when I click on the header, I see "Message Not
> Found." "The contents of this message cannot be found." I am able to
> delete these messages from my Outbox but they should not be there in
> the first place as they were sent days ago. Again, they do not get sent
> again as they have already been sent. I am using a POP3 account with the
> mail.messagingengine.com server on a Fastmail.net account. I will also let
> them know of the problem although I think it probably originates in WLM.
>
> The other strange thing is that they stand out in the Sent Items list
> because they are all addressed TO ME instead of the people they were
> originally sent to. I am certain they were sent and received because I
> have
> discussed them with the recipients.
>
> This has happened a few times before and it really makes me not trust WLM.
> I
> consider this a fundamental operational problem in a mainstream program.
>
> I believe I have the latest version and I am not aware it is a beta
> product.
> I have Version 2009 (Build 14.0.8064.0206).
>
> Any help appreciated.
>
> Tom
>
>
>
 

My Computer

T

Tom Brown

#3
Third addendum:

FYI, I previously posted this same problem on Jan 18th under the title of
"Ok, this is really weird."

Tom


"Tom Brown" <NoSpam@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news:ed6KnffkJHA.4912@xxxxxx

> Today, I noticed I had six NEW (Unread) messages in my Sent Items that
> were
> messages I sent a few days ago. Also, all of these message titles are now
> stuck in my Outbox but when I click on the header, I see "Message Not
> Found." "The contents of this message cannot be found." I am able to
> delete these messages from my Outbox but they should not be there in
> the first place as they were sent days ago. Again, they do not get sent
> again as they have already been sent. I am using a POP3 account with the
> mail.messagingengine.com server on a Fastmail.net account. I will also let
> them know of the problem although I think it probably originates in WLM.
>
> The other strange thing is that they stand out in the Sent Items list
> because they are all addressed TO ME instead of the people they were
> originally sent to. I am certain they were sent and received because I
> have
> discussed them with the recipients.
>
> This has happened a few times before and it really makes me not trust WLM.
> I
> consider this a fundamental operational problem in a mainstream program.
>
> I believe I have the latest version and I am not aware it is a beta
> product.
> I have Version 2009 (Build 14.0.8064.0206).
>
> Any help appreciated.
>
> Tom
>
>
>
 

My Computer

D

D. Spencer Hines

#4
You need to think of better, more intelligent, grown-up and descriptive
SUBJECT LINES.
--
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor

"Tom Brown" <NoSpam@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news:%23n$$cnfkJHA.4448@xxxxxx

> Third addendum:
>
> FYI, I previously posted this same problem on Jan 18th under the title of
> "Ok, this is really weird."
>
> Tom
>
>
> "Tom Brown" <NoSpam@xxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:ed6KnffkJHA.4912@xxxxxx

>> Today, I noticed I had six NEW (Unread) messages in my Sent Items that
>> were
>> messages I sent a few days ago. Also, all of these message titles are now
>> stuck in my Outbox but when I click on the header, I see "Message Not
>> Found." "The contents of this message cannot be found." I am able to
>> delete these messages from my Outbox but they should not be there in
>> the first place as they were sent days ago. Again, they do not get sent
>> again as they have already been sent. I am using a POP3 account with the
>> mail.messagingengine.com server on a Fastmail.net account. I will also
>> let
>> them know of the problem although I think it probably originates in WLM.
>>
>> The other strange thing is that they stand out in the Sent Items list
>> because they are all addressed TO ME instead of the people they were
>> originally sent to. I am certain they were sent and received because I
>> have
>> discussed them with the recipients.
>>
>> This has happened a few times before and it really makes me not trust
>> WLM. I
>> consider this a fundamental operational problem in a mainstream program.
>>
>> I believe I have the latest version and I am not aware it is a beta
>> product.
>> I have Version 2009 (Build 14.0.8064.0206).
>>
>> Any help appreciated.
>>
>> Tom
 

My Computer

M

Michael Santovec

#5
I've seen some similar things with messages moved between folders either
manually or via message rules for messages downloaded via POP3 account.

The one pattern I've noticed is that when it happens (and it doesn't
happen often), it is for messages that were moved just before closing
WLM. Might those have been messages that you sent and then quickly
closed WLM?

I'm suspecting that sometimes the message store index isn't getting
updated to disk during shutdown.

--

Mike - http://pages.prodigy.net/michael_santovec/techhelp.htm



"Tom Brown" <NoSpam@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news:#n$$cnfkJHA.4448@xxxxxx

> Third addendum:
>
> FYI, I previously posted this same problem on Jan 18th under the title
> of "Ok, this is really weird."
>
> Tom
>
>
> "Tom Brown" <NoSpam@xxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:ed6KnffkJHA.4912@xxxxxx

>> Today, I noticed I had six NEW (Unread) messages in my Sent Items
>> that were
>> messages I sent a few days ago. Also, all of these message titles are
>> now
>> stuck in my Outbox but when I click on the header, I see "Message Not
>> Found." "The contents of this message cannot be found." I am able
>> to
>> delete these messages from my Outbox but they should not be there in
>> the first place as they were sent days ago. Again, they do not get
>> sent
>> again as they have already been sent. I am using a POP3 account with
>> the
>> mail.messagingengine.com server on a Fastmail.net account. I will
>> also let
>> them know of the problem although I think it probably originates in
>> WLM.
>>
>> The other strange thing is that they stand out in the Sent Items list
>> because they are all addressed TO ME instead of the people they were
>> originally sent to. I am certain they were sent and received because
>> I have
>> discussed them with the recipients.
>>
>> This has happened a few times before and it really makes me not trust
>> WLM. I
>> consider this a fundamental operational problem in a mainstream
>> program.
>>
>> I believe I have the latest version and I am not aware it is a beta
>> product.
>> I have Version 2009 (Build 14.0.8064.0206).
>>
>> Any help appreciated.
>>
>> Tom
>>
>>
>>
 

My Computer

W

...winston

#6
It appears WLM goes into (my term) a damage control mode to protect its message store and to avoid losing a message that has not
been processed or indexed
The most prominent reason it occurs that I have seen is:
- a user closure of WLM prior to any sync being completed, Sync can be manual or automatic(send all messages immediately, check
every x sec)


These types of 'recovered' messages may show up as present in the Outbox without any content or the Sent Folder(with content and
the To field containing the user email address.ie. as if sent to one self).

The presence of, does not dictate lack of delivery of the message.

It does dictate that something abnormal to routine operation occurred.


--
...winston
ms-mvp mail

"Tom Brown" <NoSpam@xxxxxx> wrote in message news:ed6KnffkJHA.4912@xxxxxx

> Today, I noticed I had six NEW (Unread) messages in my Sent Items that were
> messages I sent a few days ago. Also, all of these message titles are now
> stuck in my Outbox but when I click on the header, I see "Message Not
> Found." "The contents of this message cannot be found." I am able to
> delete these messages from my Outbox but they should not be there in
> the first place as they were sent days ago. Again, they do not get sent
> again as they have already been sent. I am using a POP3 account with the
> mail.messagingengine.com server on a Fastmail.net account. I will also let
> them know of the problem although I think it probably originates in WLM.
>
> The other strange thing is that they stand out in the Sent Items list
> because they are all addressed TO ME instead of the people they were
> originally sent to. I am certain they were sent and received because I have
> discussed them with the recipients.
>
> This has happened a few times before and it really makes me not trust WLM. I
> consider this a fundamental operational problem in a mainstream program.
>
> I believe I have the latest version and I am not aware it is a beta product.
> I have Version 2009 (Build 14.0.8064.0206).
>
> Any help appreciated.
>
> Tom
>
>
 

My Computer

R

R. C. White

#7
Hi, Winston - and Michael.

Yes, WLM definitely needs better Exit procedures!

Even when it SEEMS that all WLM's housekeeping chores have been completed in
the background, closing the application can leave bits of debris scattered
around that get noticed the next time WLM is started. Sometimes there is a
"Recovered items" folder. Sometimes the Unread count is off. Sometimes we
read messages again that we KNOW we read yesterday. And sometimes, Contacts
that we KNOW we added yesterday are not there today. :>(

The most noticeable sign of such activity is when I click the Red X
(actually a white X in a red box, but you know what I mean) while a Sync
operation is continuing. The main WLM window closes, but the "progress"
window - for want of a better name, since its title is simply "Windows Live
Mail" - is still open and messages are still being downloaded and sorted
into place in WLM's database. Sometimes an unfinished Draft is still open
after WLM's window is closed. All the sub-windows do close, eventually, but
the unfinished tasks can leave garbage that shows up in the next WLM
session.

It hardly seems worth the trouble to report all these to the WLM Team, since
I'm sure they are well aware of them. :>(

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
rc@xxxxxx
Microsoft Windows MVP
Windows Live Mail 2009 (14.0.8064.0206) in Win7 Ultimate x64 7000

"...winston" <winstonmvp@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news:OeUofthkJHA.2516@xxxxxx

> It appears WLM goes into (my term) a damage control mode to protect its
> message store and to avoid losing a message that has not been processed or
> indexed
> The most prominent reason it occurs that I have seen is:
> - a user closure of WLM prior to any sync being completed, Sync can be
> manual or automatic(send all messages immediately, check every x sec)
>
>
> These types of 'recovered' messages may show up as present in the Outbox
> without any content or the Sent Folder(with content and the To field
> containing the user email address.ie. as if sent to one self).
>
> The presence of, does not dictate lack of delivery of the message.
>
> It does dictate that something abnormal to routine operation occurred.
>
>
> --
> ...winston
> ms-mvp mail
>
> "Tom Brown" <NoSpam@xxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:ed6KnffkJHA.4912@xxxxxx

>> Today, I noticed I had six NEW (Unread) messages in my Sent Items that
>> were
>> messages I sent a few days ago. Also, all of these message titles are now
>> stuck in my Outbox but when I click on the header, I see "Message Not
>> Found." "The contents of this message cannot be found." I am able to
>> delete these messages from my Outbox but they should not be there in
>> the first place as they were sent days ago. Again, they do not get sent
>> again as they have already been sent. I am using a POP3 account with the
>> mail.messagingengine.com server on a Fastmail.net account. I will also
>> let
>> them know of the problem although I think it probably originates in WLM.
>>
>> The other strange thing is that they stand out in the Sent Items list
>> because they are all addressed TO ME instead of the people they were
>> originally sent to. I am certain they were sent and received because I
>> have
>> discussed them with the recipients.
>>
>> This has happened a few times before and it really makes me not trust
>> WLM. I
>> consider this a fundamental operational problem in a mainstream program.
>>
>> I believe I have the latest version and I am not aware it is a beta
>> product.
>> I have Version 2009 (Build 14.0.8064.0206).
>>
>> Any help appreciated.
>>
>> Tom
 

My Computer

T

Tom Brown

#8
Thanks for the ideas Winston. I think you are probably correct that the
trouble is in this area.

I do sometimes close WLM with messages still in the Outbox and it has to ask
me if I want to send the unsent messages. Depending on what the situation
is, I sometimes tell it to send and other times I tell it not to send. There
are times I do not want to send messages immediately.

I don't have them go automatically because I sometimes need to retrieve a
message or delay it. But, as I said, it didn't seem to bother OE. Maybe
the designers should make this area a little more robust exit procedure in
WLM.

Anyway, I'll try to keep an eye on that situation and notice if it's those
messages that are getting corrupted.

Thanks again,

Tom


"...winston" <winstonmvp@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news:OeUofthkJHA.2516@xxxxxx

> It appears WLM goes into (my term) a damage control mode to protect its
> message store and to avoid losing a message that has not been processed or
> indexed
> The most prominent reason it occurs that I have seen is:
> - a user closure of WLM prior to any sync being completed, Sync can be
> manual or automatic(send all messages immediately, check every x sec)
>
>
> These types of 'recovered' messages may show up as present in the Outbox
> without any content or the Sent Folder(with content and the To field
> containing the user email address.ie. as if sent to one self).
>
> The presence of, does not dictate lack of delivery of the message.
>
> It does dictate that something abnormal to routine operation occurred.
>
>
> --
> ...winston
> ms-mvp mail
>
> "Tom Brown" <NoSpam@xxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:ed6KnffkJHA.4912@xxxxxx

>> Today, I noticed I had six NEW (Unread) messages in my Sent Items that
>> were
>> messages I sent a few days ago. Also, all of these message titles are now
>> stuck in my Outbox but when I click on the header, I see "Message Not
>> Found." "The contents of this message cannot be found." I am able to
>> delete these messages from my Outbox but they should not be there in
>> the first place as they were sent days ago. Again, they do not get sent
>> again as they have already been sent. I am using a POP3 account with the
>> mail.messagingengine.com server on a Fastmail.net account. I will also
>> let
>> them know of the problem although I think it probably originates in WLM.
>>
>> The other strange thing is that they stand out in the Sent Items list
>> because they are all addressed TO ME instead of the people they were
>> originally sent to. I am certain they were sent and received because I
>> have
>> discussed them with the recipients.
>>
>> This has happened a few times before and it really makes me not trust
>> WLM. I
>> consider this a fundamental operational problem in a mainstream program.
>>
>> I believe I have the latest version and I am not aware it is a beta
>> product.
>> I have Version 2009 (Build 14.0.8064.0206).
>>
>> Any help appreciated.
>>
>> Tom
>>
>>
 

My Computer

T

Tom Brown

#9
That's a reasonable explanation but maybe not the solution. I rarely shut
my computer down. I tend to leave it running for days at a time so the index
should have plenty of time to update. Oh, maybe you are talking about
shutting down WLM and not the computer. I see another posting discussed
this possibility and that's probably a good clue. Maybe if we had some
visual indication that an indexes were still being updated, we could avoid
unintentionally corrupting it.

Also, I don't usually move my Sent or Outbox items (manually or with rules)
to a different folder. I think it is probably some internal flag or index
getting corrupted but I doubt it's anything I am doing as I have operated OE
for decades without seeing this problem. Oh wait! Maybe I do recall moving
a set of messages in my Outbox into the Drafts folder for temporary storage.
I think I did that recently so I could send an individual message before I
was ready to send the other messages in the Outbox. These could be clues
that the development team could use to make the product more robust.

One thing they could do to prevent people editing messages in the Outbox is
to do a better job of formatting/word-wrapping in WLM and OE. I sometimes
add or delete a word or sentence and find that when I preview the message in
the Outbox (or Drafts), the formatting is really messed up.

But, I do appreciate the suggestions. Keep them coming if you (or anyone
else) thinks of some other possibility for this original problem.

Tom




"Michael Santovec" <michael_santovec@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news:eGm60UgkJHA.1928@xxxxxx

> I've seen some similar things with messages moved between folders either
> manually or via message rules for messages downloaded via POP3 account.
>
> The one pattern I've noticed is that when it happens (and it doesn't
> happen often), it is for messages that were moved just before closing WLM.
> Might those have been messages that you sent and then quickly closed WLM?
>
> I'm suspecting that sometimes the message store index isn't getting
> updated to disk during shutdown.
>
> --
>
> Mike - http://pages.prodigy.net/michael_santovec/techhelp.htm
>
>
>
> "Tom Brown" <NoSpam@xxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:#n$$cnfkJHA.4448@xxxxxx

>> Third addendum:
>>
>> FYI, I previously posted this same problem on Jan 18th under the title of
>> "Ok, this is really weird."
>>
>> Tom
>>
>>
>> "Tom Brown" <NoSpam@xxxxxx> wrote in message
>> news:ed6KnffkJHA.4912@xxxxxx

>>> Today, I noticed I had six NEW (Unread) messages in my Sent Items that
>>> were
>>> messages I sent a few days ago. Also, all of these message titles are
>>> now
>>> stuck in my Outbox but when I click on the header, I see "Message Not
>>> Found." "The contents of this message cannot be found." I am able to
>>> delete these messages from my Outbox but they should not be there in
>>> the first place as they were sent days ago. Again, they do not get sent
>>> again as they have already been sent. I am using a POP3 account with the
>>> mail.messagingengine.com server on a Fastmail.net account. I will also
>>> let
>>> them know of the problem although I think it probably originates in WLM.
>>>
>>> The other strange thing is that they stand out in the Sent Items list
>>> because they are all addressed TO ME instead of the people they were
>>> originally sent to. I am certain they were sent and received because I
>>> have
>>> discussed them with the recipients.
>>>
>>> This has happened a few times before and it really makes me not trust
>>> WLM. I
>>> consider this a fundamental operational problem in a mainstream
>>> program.
>>>
>>> I believe I have the latest version and I am not aware it is a beta
>>> product.
>>> I have Version 2009 (Build 14.0.8064.0206).
>>>
>>> Any help appreciated.
>>>
>>> Tom
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
 

My Computer

T

Tom Brown

#10
Ok, I'll work on that.

Meanwhile, do you have any constructive suggestions for an appropriate title
or solution for this problem?

I have seen you make some good comments and suggestions but apparently you
also view it as your duty to monitor the intelligence or maturity level of
people attempting to find help? You are not going to change the world in
that regard so may I suggest that you lighten up a bit in that area and
stick to the technical suggestions.

The good news is that I agree with you 100% on the issue of what the Outbox
is intended for (mentioned in another thread) and the necessity to let them
simmer a while in case you need to edit them before sending them. See, my
generic (childish and unintelligent) subject line just now allowed me to
address two problem in one post. But, I imagine I will get yelled at by
someone for not sticking to the subject.

Tom


"D. Spencer Hines" <panther@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news:uStdCAgkJHA.4696@xxxxxx

> You need to think of better, more intelligent, grown-up and descriptive
> SUBJECT LINES.
> --
> DSH
> Lux et Veritas et Libertas
> Vires et Honor
>
> "Tom Brown" <NoSpam@xxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:%23n$$cnfkJHA.4448@xxxxxx
>

>> Third addendum:
>>
>> FYI, I previously posted this same problem on Jan 18th under the title of
>> "Ok, this is really weird."
>>
>> Tom
>>
>>
>> "Tom Brown" <NoSpam@xxxxxx> wrote in message
>> news:ed6KnffkJHA.4912@xxxxxx

>>> Today, I noticed I had six NEW (Unread) messages in my Sent Items that
>>> were
>>> messages I sent a few days ago. Also, all of these message titles are
>>> now
>>> stuck in my Outbox but when I click on the header, I see "Message Not
>>> Found." "The contents of this message cannot be found." I am able to
>>> delete these messages from my Outbox but they should not be there in
>>> the first place as they were sent days ago. Again, they do not get sent
>>> again as they have already been sent. I am using a POP3 account with the
>>> mail.messagingengine.com server on a Fastmail.net account. I will also
>>> let
>>> them know of the problem although I think it probably originates in WLM.
>>>
>>> The other strange thing is that they stand out in the Sent Items list
>>> because they are all addressed TO ME instead of the people they were
>>> originally sent to. I am certain they were sent and received because I
>>> have
>>> discussed them with the recipients.
>>>
>>> This has happened a few times before and it really makes me not trust
>>> WLM. I
>>> consider this a fundamental operational problem in a mainstream
>>> program.
>>>
>>> I believe I have the latest version and I am not aware it is a beta
>>> product.
>>> I have Version 2009 (Build 14.0.8064.0206).
>>>
>>> Any help appreciated.
>>>
>>> Tom
>
>
 

My Computer

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