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User Accounts in Vista Home Premium?

B

Blue Max

#1
I am working on a laptop computer running Microsoft Vista Home Premium. I
wanted to access the utility for modifying user account permissions;
normally found in the 'Local Users and Groups' dialog within the Windows
Computer Management utility (right-click Computer icon and select Manage).
However, I cannot find any 'Local Users and Groups' option in Vista Home
Premium. Without this feature how can we enable or disable user accounts or
profiles?
 

My Computer

R

Ronnie Vernon MVP

#2
Blue Max

Just like the XP Home versions, the Vista Home versions do not include the
management console snap-ins like local users and groups.

Most everything that you can do with the MMC can be done in the home
versions using direct registry edits.

There is no way to actually 'disable' an account in Vista, but you can
'hide' an account so that it is invisible on the login screen.

Let me know if this is what you want to do.

--

Ronnie Vernon
Microsoft MVP
Windows Shell/User


"Blue Max" <mailrichard@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news:B0AB9C15-7F6F-49CD-A59D-CD44C5373B00@xxxxxx

>I am working on a laptop computer running Microsoft Vista Home Premium. I
>wanted to access the utility for modifying user account permissions;
>normally found in the 'Local Users and Groups' dialog within the Windows
>Computer Management utility (right-click Computer icon and select Manage).
>However, I cannot find any 'Local Users and Groups' option in Vista Home
>Premium. Without this feature how can we enable or disable user accounts
>or profiles?
>
 

My Computer

C

Chris Game

#3
On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 19:04:12 -0700, Ronnie Vernon MVP wrote:

> Just like the XP Home versions, the Vista Home versions do not
> include the management console snap-ins like local users and
> groups.
The Event Viewer seems to be a MC snap-in, available in
Home-Premium.

--
Chris Game

"Hopefully the net-dwelling paranoid delusional conspiracy theorists
won't descend upon me " -- Chris Pratley, MSFT.
 

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R

Ronnie Vernon MVP

#4
Chris

That's correct. The only snap-ins that are not included are things like
Group Policy, Security Policy, etc. These components are focused on managing
large numbers of systems and large groups of users, which is not usually
important to the home version users.

--

Ronnie Vernon
Microsoft MVP
Windows Shell/User


"Chris Game" <chrisgame@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1a6b4r11ijcaj$.dlg@xxxxxx

> On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 19:04:12 -0700, Ronnie Vernon MVP wrote:
>

>> Just like the XP Home versions, the Vista Home versions do not
>> include the management console snap-ins like local users and
>> groups.
>
> The Event Viewer seems to be a MC snap-in, available in
> Home-Premium.
>
> --
> Chris Game
>
> "Hopefully the net-dwelling paranoid delusional conspiracy theorists
> won't descend upon me " -- Chris Pratley, MSFT.
 

My Computer

B

Blue Max

#5
Thank you, Ronnie, see in-line replies below:

"Ronnie Vernon MVP" <rv@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news:F9BDAA53-C51B-4DCD-AB83-8857DB928B40@xxxxxx

> Blue Max
>
> Just like the XP Home versions, the Vista Home versions do not include the
> management console snap-ins like local users and groups.
I was afraid this might be the case. Thank you for the confirmation.

> Most everything that you can do with the MMC can be done in the home
> versions using direct registry edits.
This is good go know, a little more technical than I might have wanted, but
a useful possibility.

> There is no way to actually 'disable' an account in Vista, but you can
> 'hide' an account so that it is invisible on the login screen.
Interesting, because my Vista property dialogs for each user have an option
titled "Account is disabled" versus "Account is hidden." Nevertheless, I
think I understand what you are describing. In Windows XP the
'Administrator' account was not displayed on the 'Welcome' screen, but could
still be accessed remotely or at the 'Welcome' screen using Ctrl-Alt-Del.
Is this the same behavior we should expect in Vista? In other words, the
account is hidden, but still active?

If so, how do we access the Administrator account, for example, from the
'Welcome' screen as we did in Windows XP? And now back to our concern in
our original message, how would one ever 'Unhide' or 'Enable' the
Administrator account in Vista Home Premium, which is hidden or disabled by
default, but has no snap-in? Are we going to be forced into the registry to
change a default or is there a utility like TWEAKUI that will help with
these changes?

Thank you for the help.

> Let me know if this is what you want to do.
>
> --
>
> Ronnie Vernon
> Microsoft MVP
> Windows Shell/User
>
>
> "Blue Max" <mailrichard@xxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:B0AB9C15-7F6F-49CD-A59D-CD44C5373B00@xxxxxx

>>I am working on a laptop computer running Microsoft Vista Home Premium. I
>>wanted to access the utility for modifying user account permissions;
>>normally found in the 'Local Users and Groups' dialog within the Windows
>>Computer Management utility (right-click Computer icon and select Manage).
>>However, I cannot find any 'Local Users and Groups' option in Vista Home
>>Premium. Without this feature how can we enable or disable user accounts
>>or profiles?
>>
>
 

My Computer

K

kmarkum

#6
Ronnie Vernon MVP wrote:

>Most everything that you can do with the MMC can be done in the home
>versions using direct registry edits.
>
>There is no way to actually 'disable' an account in Vista, but you can
>'hide' an account so that it is invisible on the login screen.
>
>Let me know if this is what you want to do.
>
Ronnie,

I would like to know the registry edits to hide an account in Vista Home
Premium, and access it via Ctrl-Alt-Del twice at Welcome screen, similar to
XP Professional. Or is there another way in Vista?

I am comfortable editing the registry.

Thanks.
 

My Computer

Messages
1
#7
Ronnie Vernon MVP wrote:

Ronnie,

I would like to know the registry edits to hide an account in Vista Home
Premium, and access it via Ctrl-Alt-Del twice at Welcome screen, similar to
XP Professional. Or is there another way in Vista?

I am comfortable editing the registry.

Thanks.
1. Click on the Start Button, type in secpol.msc and press <enter>.
2. Click Local Policies, then click Security Options.
3. In the right hand pane, locate "Interactive logon: Do not display last user name", right click on
it and select Properties.
4. Select Enable and click OK.
5. Close the Local Security Policy editor.

Log off and you will see the new logon screen.

sincerely,
Sergio
Windows Vista Autologon
 

My Computer

R

Ronnie Vernon MVP

#8
KMarkum

First, a Warning. Be very careful when hiding user accounts in Vista. If you
hide the only available administrative account, you can effectively lock
yourself out of performing any tasks that require administrative privileges
on the system. This is because the CTRL+ALT+DEL procedure is no longer an
option at the login screen. Also, if you hide the only user created,
visible, administrator account on the system you will not be able to log on
with this account, even in Safe Mode. Also, if you hide the only visible
administrator account, you will also not be able to logon with the Built-in
Administrator account in Safe Mode. You must have administrator privileges
to hide or un-hide a user account in Vista.

In Vista when you hide a user profile, it is really "hidden". You cannot
access this account in normal or Safe mode.

Hide Users from the Welcome Screen

Go to Start and type: regedit.exe Right click regedit.exe in the results
and select the Run As Administrator option.

Navigate to the following registry key:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows
NT\CurrentVersion\Winlogon\SpecialAccounts\UserList

If the SpecialAccounts and UserList keys are not there, you will need to
create them.

Right click the Winlogon key and select New/Key from the menu.
Name the Key SpecialAccounts (Case sensitive)
Right click the SpecialAccounts Key and select New/Key.
Name this Key UserList (Case sensitive)

With the UserList key selected, right click in the right side pane and
select New / DWORD Value (32-bit).
Name this Value the same exact name of the user account that you want
hidden.

Double click this Value and place a 0 (Zero) in the Value Data line. Click
OK.

This will prevent the user from showing up on the welcome screen.

Do this for each account you want hidden.

--

Ronnie Vernon
Microsoft MVP
Windows Shell/User


"kmarkum" <u38668@xxxxxx> wrote in message news:7a7267f04f99b@xxxxxx

> Ronnie Vernon MVP wrote:

>>Most everything that you can do with the MMC can be done in the home
>>versions using direct registry edits.
>>
>>There is no way to actually 'disable' an account in Vista, but you can
>>'hide' an account so that it is invisible on the login screen.
>>
>>Let me know if this is what you want to do.
>>
>
> Ronnie,
>
> I would like to know the registry edits to hide an account in Vista Home
> Premium, and access it via Ctrl-Alt-Del twice at Welcome screen, similar
> to
> XP Professional. Or is there another way in Vista?
>
> I am comfortable editing the registry.
>
> Thanks.
>
 

My Computer

R

Ronnie Vernon MVP

#9
Blue Max

Sorry for the long delay, I had to deal with the CA wildfires this past
week.


> Interesting, because my Vista property dialogs for each user have an
> option titled "Account is disabled" versus "Account is hidden."
> Nevertheless, I think I understand what you are describing. In Windows XP
> the 'Administrator' account was not displayed on the 'Welcome' screen, but
> could still be accessed remotely or at the 'Welcome' screen using
> Ctrl-Alt-Del. Is this the same behavior we should expect in Vista? In
> other words, the account is hidden, but still active?
Actually, you can 'disable' an account in Vista, either by using the option
you describe or from a command line. Unfortunately, the resulting behavior
has been changed in Vista. If you disable a user account, that account will
no longer be available, anywhere. The CTRL+ALT+DEL behavior has changed in
Vista. You can no longer use this keyboard combination to bring up the old
style login dialog. If you disable or hide a user account, that account will
no longer appear even in Safe Mode. As a result, you must be very careful
when disabling or hiding any user account.

>
> If so, how do we access the Administrator account, for example, from the
> 'Welcome' screen as we did in Windows XP? And now back to our concern in
> our original message, how would one ever 'Unhide' or 'Enable' the
> Administrator account in Vista Home Premium, which is hidden or disabled
> by default, but has no snap-in? Are we going to be forced into the
> registry to change a default or is there a utility like TWEAKUI that will
> help with these changes?
The only way to access the built-in Administrator account is to enable the
account from within Vista. You can do this from an elevated command line.
Start cmd.exe with administrator privileges and type the following.

net user administrator /active:yes

Press Enter.

To disable the account, change the 'yes' to 'no'.

You can use this command to enable or disable any user account.

You can also use a registry edit, in the Home versions of Vista, to force
the old style login dialog box to appear. If you do enable this, the login
dialog will appear everytime you boot and no user accounts will be visible.

--

Ronnie Vernon
Microsoft MVP
Windows Shell/User


"Blue Max" <mailrichard@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news:C0A55E0A-4590-46FC-8A27-AC043187E19E@xxxxxx

> Thank you, Ronnie, see in-line replies below:
>
> "Ronnie Vernon MVP" <rv@xxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:F9BDAA53-C51B-4DCD-AB83-8857DB928B40@xxxxxx

>> Blue Max
>>
>> Just like the XP Home versions, the Vista Home versions do not include
>> the management console snap-ins like local users and groups.
>
> I was afraid this might be the case. Thank you for the confirmation.
>

>> Most everything that you can do with the MMC can be done in the home
>> versions using direct registry edits.
>
> This is good go know, a little more technical than I might have wanted,
> but a useful possibility.
>

>> There is no way to actually 'disable' an account in Vista, but you can
>> 'hide' an account so that it is invisible on the login screen.
>
>
> Thank you for the help.
>

>> Let me know if this is what you want to do.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Ronnie Vernon
>> Microsoft MVP
>> Windows Shell/User
>>
>>
>> "Blue Max" <mailrichard@xxxxxx> wrote in message
>> news:B0AB9C15-7F6F-49CD-A59D-CD44C5373B00@xxxxxx

>>>I am working on a laptop computer running Microsoft Vista Home Premium.
>>>I wanted to access the utility for modifying user account permissions;
>>>normally found in the 'Local Users and Groups' dialog within the Windows
>>>Computer Management utility (right-click Computer icon and select
>>>Manage). However, I cannot find any 'Local Users and Groups' option in
>>>Vista Home Premium. Without this feature how can we enable or disable
>>>user accounts or profiles?
>>>
>>
>
 

My Computer

B

Blue Max

#10
> Actually, you can 'disable' an account in Vista, either by using the

> option you describe or from a command line. Unfortunately, the resulting
> behavior has been changed in Vista. If you disable a user account, that
> account will no longer be available, anywhere. The CTRL+ALT+DEL behavior
> has changed in Vista. You can no longer use this keyboard combination to
> bring up the old style login dialog. If you disable or hide a user
> account, that account will no longer appear even in Safe Mode. As a
> result, you must be very careful when disabling or hiding any user
> account.
This is pretty scary stuff! Why didn't they build in a feature that would
prevent the user from hiding or disabling the only remaining administrator
account? It doesn't take a psyhic to foresee that there are going to be
some really angry users down the road who fall prey to this oversight;
potientially at great cost to themselves or their business entity.
 

My Computer

K

kmarkum via WindowsKB.com

#11
Thanks Ronnie, I appreciate the help. Actually I had already accomplished
that and the account is hidden, but you have confirmed that I did it
correctly, I was looking for the way to use that account occasionally from
the Welcome Screen, as I did in XP, but it doesn't seem that will be possible.
It appears that this account will need to be unhidden before it can be used,
which kinda defeats the purpose, in my opinion.

Is this possible in other vista versions? Would you know if there is a
posibility that this functionality might reappear in a service pack, due to
popular demand, or is it gone forever? Where would one make this request of
Microsoft, if it is a possibility, or can you pass it on?

It seems there is the option to require Ctrl-Alt-Del, with no Welcome Screen,
and "Don't remember last login name", but that would disable quick user
switching. I might like to try that to see how it works. Is that possible
in Visata Home Premium, and would you outline the steps to accomplish this.
Thanks in advance! I have learned much from your other posts, that show up
on many sites.

Oh, and thanks for the warning about hiding the only admin account. Good to
know. I had read that somewhere, probably one of your posts, but it hadn't
sunk in yet how that might apply to me.

-km

Ronnie Vernon MVP wrote:

>KMarkum
>
>First, a Warning. Be very careful when hiding user accounts in Vista. If you
>hide the only available administrative account, you can effectively lock
>yourself out of performing any tasks that require administrative privileges
>on the system. This is because the CTRL+ALT+DEL procedure is no longer an
>option at the login screen. Also, if you hide the only user created,
>visible, administrator account on the system you will not be able to log on
>with this account, even in Safe Mode. Also, if you hide the only visible
>administrator account, you will also not be able to logon with the Built-in
>Administrator account in Safe Mode. You must have administrator privileges
>to hide or un-hide a user account in Vista.
>
>In Vista when you hide a user profile, it is really "hidden". You cannot
>access this account in normal or Safe mode.
>
>Hide Users from the Welcome Screen
>
>Go to Start and type: regedit.exe Right click regedit.exe in the results
>and select the Run As Administrator option.
>
>Navigate to the following registry key:
>
>HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows
>NT\CurrentVersion\Winlogon\SpecialAccounts\UserList
>
>If the SpecialAccounts and UserList keys are not there, you will need to
>create them.
>
>Right click the Winlogon key and select New/Key from the menu.
>Name the Key SpecialAccounts (Case sensitive)
>Right click the SpecialAccounts Key and select New/Key.
>Name this Key UserList (Case sensitive)
>
>With the UserList key selected, right click in the right side pane and
>select New / DWORD Value (32-bit).
>Name this Value the same exact name of the user account that you want
>hidden.
>
>Double click this Value and place a 0 (Zero) in the Value Data line. Click
>OK.
>
>This will prevent the user from showing up on the welcome screen.
>
>Do this for each account you want hidden.
>

>>>Most everything that you can do with the MMC can be done in the home
>>>versions using direct registry edits.
>[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]

>>
>> Thanks.
--
Message posted via http://www.windowskb.com
 

My Computer

R

Ronnie Vernon MVP

#12
"kmarkum via WindowsKB.com" <u38668@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news:7a7db784a4180@xxxxxx

> Thanks Ronnie, I appreciate the help. Actually I had already accomplished
> that and the account is hidden, but you have confirmed that I did it
> correctly, I was looking for the way to use that account occasionally
> from
> the Welcome Screen, as I did in XP, but it doesn't seem that will be
> possible.
> It appears that this account will need to be unhidden before it can be
> used,
> which kinda defeats the purpose, in my opinion.
>
> Is this possible in other vista versions? Would you know if there is a
> posibility that this functionality might reappear in a service pack, due
> to
> popular demand, or is it gone forever? Where would one make this request
> of
> Microsoft, if it is a possibility, or can you pass it on?
Hi KMarkum

This works the same in all versions of Vista. It's doubtful that this will
be changed since it's part of the security model for Vista, but anything is
possible. :) Here is a link you can use to provide feedback on this problem.
They do read these messages.

Vista Feedback:
https://feedback.windowsvista.microsoft.com/default.aspx?productkey=winvista

>
> It seems there is the option to require Ctrl-Alt-Del, with no Welcome
> Screen,
> and "Don't remember last login name", but that would disable quick user
> switching. I might like to try that to see how it works. Is that
> possible
> in Visata Home Premium, and would you outline the steps to accomplish
> this.
> Thanks in advance! I have learned much from your other posts, that show
> up
> on many sites.

Go to Start and type regedt32.exe. In the results, right click
regedit32.exe and select the Run As Administrator option.

*Warning, you should always backup the registry prior to making any
changes.*

Navigate to the following location:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Policies\System

Double click the following value and change the value data setting.

DontDisplayLastUserName (Change the Value Data to 1 (one) and click OK)

This will cause the login dialog to appear automatically, where you must
enter a user name and password to log in.

If you also want to require that users press CTRL+ALT+DEL prior to seeing
the login dialog appear, you can create the following registry value.

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Policies\System

In the right side pane, right click and select New / DWORD (32-bit) Value.
Name this value DisableCAD (Case sensitive) double click the new dword
and make sure the Value Data is set to 0 (Zero) click OK.

Exit the registry editor and reboot to see the changes. You will be required
to press CTRL+ALT+DEL and enter a user name and password to login.

NOTE: the CTRL+ALT+DEL option is now used to simply provide a trusted path.
In other words to make sure that someone is physically logging onto the
system as opposed to a malicious program trying to login. This is not
required to make the login dialog appear.

--

Ronnie Vernon
Microsoft MVP
Windows Shell/User

> Ronnie Vernon MVP wrote:

>>KMarkum
>>
>>First, a Warning. Be very careful when hiding user accounts in Vista. If
>>you
>>hide the only available administrative account, you can effectively lock
>>yourself out of performing any tasks that require administrative
>>privileges
>>on the system. This is because the CTRL+ALT+DEL procedure is no longer an
>>option at the login screen. Also, if you hide the only user created,
>>visible, administrator account on the system you will not be able to log
>>on
>>with this account, even in Safe Mode. Also, if you hide the only visible
>>administrator account, you will also not be able to logon with the
>>Built-in
>>Administrator account in Safe Mode. You must have administrator privileges
>>to hide or un-hide a user account in Vista.
>>
>>In Vista when you hide a user profile, it is really "hidden". You cannot
>>access this account in normal or Safe mode.
>>
>>Hide Users from the Welcome Screen
>>
>>Go to Start and type: regedit.exe Right click regedit.exe in the
>>results
>>and select the Run As Administrator option.
>>
>>Navigate to the following registry key:
>>
>>HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows
>>NT\CurrentVersion\Winlogon\SpecialAccounts\UserList
>>
>>If the SpecialAccounts and UserList keys are not there, you will need to
>>create them.
>>
>>Right click the Winlogon key and select New/Key from the menu.
>>Name the Key SpecialAccounts (Case sensitive)
>>Right click the SpecialAccounts Key and select New/Key.
>>Name this Key UserList (Case sensitive)
>>
>>With the UserList key selected, right click in the right side pane and
>>select New / DWORD Value (32-bit).
>>Name this Value the same exact name of the user account that you want
>>hidden.
>>
>>Double click this Value and place a 0 (Zero) in the Value Data line. Click
>>OK.
>>
>>This will prevent the user from showing up on the welcome screen.
>>
>>Do this for each account you want hidden.
>>

>>>>Most everything that you can do with the MMC can be done in the home
>>>>versions using direct registry edits.
>>[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]

>>>
>>> Thanks.
>
> --
> Message posted via http://www.windowskb.com
>
 

My Computer

C

Chris Game

#13
On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 12:16:29 -0700, Ronnie Vernon MVP wrote:

> If you disable or hide a user account, that account will no longer
> appear even in Safe Mode. As a result, you must be very careful
> when disabling or hiding any user account.
I thought the Administrator account enabled itself in Safe Mode if
other admin accounts were removed?

--
Chris Game

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything
that counts can be counted." - Albert Einstein
 

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R

Ronnie Vernon MVP

#14
"Chris Game" <chrisgame@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news:pqhn4bx9y0by.dlg@xxxxxx

> I thought the Administrator account enabled itself in Safe Mode if
> other admin accounts were removed?
Chris

This was the default behavior in previous versions of windows such as XP but
it works differently in Vista.

The key word here is 'removed'. If you remove all of the user created
administrator accounts, then the Built-In Administrator account will appear
on the Safe Mode login screen. This is the safety net in case all
administrator accounts have been deleted, corrupted or removed.

However, if a user created administrator account has been hidden, Vista will
still detect that account and the built-in administrator account will not
appear on the safe mode login screen.

I don't recommend hiding any accounts in Vista. If you don't want the
accounts appearing on the login screen, you can simply enable the old style
login dialog where you have to enter a user name and password. This works
even if an account has been hidden.

The bottom line here is that you don't want to assume that because something
worked in XP that it will still work the same way in Vista.
--

Ronnie Vernon
Microsoft MVP
Windows Shell/User
 

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R

Ronnie Vernon MVP

#15
Blue Max

I do understand what you are saying and your concerns.

Users will get in trouble if they assume that Vista will work the same way
that XP or other previous versions of Windows worked.

Most of the changes in behavior for Vista are a result of the new security
model. In XP it was very easy for anyone to sit down at your computer,
reboot to safe mode and log in with the built-in administrator account. Most
people did not take the time to follow the recommendations to change the
name and assign a strong password to this account.

Here are some notes that I kept when I was testing this new hidden, disabled
user accounts behavior in Vista.

NOTES ON HIDING AND DISABLING ACCOUNTS IN VISTA

If all user created administrator accounts are 'hidden' and the Built-In
Administrator account is 'disabled', a standard account will not be able to
elevate any function, even in Safe Mode.

You can use the old style login dialog to log on to a 'hidden' account in
normal or safe mode.

You cannot use the old style login dialog to log on with a 'disabled'
account in normal or safe mode.

You cannot use this old style dialog to log onto the built-in admin account
in safe mode if it is disabled (default) when a user created administrator
account is present, even if the user created account is hidden.

If any account is 'hidden', it will not be visible on the login screen, even
in Safe Mode. The only way to log on with a 'hidden' account is if you have
the old style login dialog enabled.

If the only user created administrator account is 'hidden', the built-in
administrator account will not appear on the login screen in Safe Mode.

If the only user created administrator account is 'disabled' the built-in
administrator account will appear in safe mode.

If the only user created administrator account has been corrupted or deleted
the built-in administrator account will appear in safe mode.

The CTRL+ALT+DEL keyboard combination no longer works the way it did in
previous versions of windows. It is now used to provide a 'Trusted Path' in
Vista to prevent malicious prgrams from intercepting a users logon
credentials. It will 'not' bring up the old style login dialog at the
welcome screen in normal or safe mode.

If you want to hide user accounts, the safest way is to enable the old style
logon dialog when you hide the accounts. This must be done using the Group
Policy Editor (Business, Enterprise, Ultimate) or in the registry (Home
Basic, Home Premium). This will still give you access to those hidden
accounts, without making them visible.

--

Ronnie Vernon
Microsoft MVP
Windows Shell/User


"Blue Max" <mailrichard@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news:E2157E8A-28DF-43EB-BCCB-D390A170B719@xxxxxx

>> Actually, you can 'disable' an account in Vista, either by using the
>> option you describe or from a command line. Unfortunately, the resulting
>> behavior has been changed in Vista. If you disable a user account, that
>> account will no longer be available, anywhere. The CTRL+ALT+DEL behavior
>> has changed in Vista. You can no longer use this keyboard combination to
>> bring up the old style login dialog. If you disable or hide a user
>> account, that account will no longer appear even in Safe Mode. As a
>> result, you must be very careful when disabling or hiding any user
>> account.
>
> This is pretty scary stuff! Why didn't they build in a feature that would
> prevent the user from hiding or disabling the only remaining administrator
> account? It doesn't take a psyhic to foresee that there are going to be
> some really angry users down the road who fall prey to this oversight;
> potientially at great cost to themselves or their business entity.
 

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B

Blue Max

#16
Hello Ronnie,

Thank you for the insight and thanks for being on your toes during the
evaluation period, Microsoft should have considered your concerns a little
more seriously! Ironically, one of the weaknesses in XP was the lack of a
strong password for the built-in administrator account, yet, on most
systems, the computer shipped with the built-in Administrator account
hidden. As such, most novice users never would have had the faintest idea
of how to change the password, even had they desired to do so. In our
opinion, the problem for the novice user was not setting the password, but
finding the account!

Here is another common scenario for your list. The user sets up a computer
using their account as the administrator account. Next they set up other
family member (home system) or worker (office system) accounts as standard
accounts. Now consider the fact that Microsoft recommends time and time
again, including right on the 'Account Type' dialog, that even the
administrator (easily a parent or other novice) should designate their
account as a standard account for normal, everyday use in order to minimize
administrative exposure risks. So the parent or other administrator,
instead of creating a second account, demotes their original administrative
account to a limited account. Which is legal because, while hidden or
disabled, the built-in system 'Administrator' account does exist? But now
there are no visible administrator accounts available to the user, correct?

Finally, I certainly don't see any problem with displaying all accounts in
Safe Mode, sine the problem wasn't really that they were displayed, rather
that they lacked adequate passwords. Certainly there were ways to force
even a novice user to supply a password to the built-in administrator
account during setup.

Thanks again for the insight.

*******************
"Ronnie Vernon MVP" <rv@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news:F111AB2B-DE33-45FF-B04B-3753693DBEA7@xxxxxx

> Blue Max
>
> I do understand what you are saying and your concerns.
>
> Users will get in trouble if they assume that Vista will work the same way
> that XP or other previous versions of Windows worked.
>
> Most of the changes in behavior for Vista are a result of the new security
> model. In XP it was very easy for anyone to sit down at your computer,
> reboot to safe mode and log in with the built-in administrator account.
> Most people did not take the time to follow the recommendations to change
> the name and assign a strong password to this account.
>
> Here are some notes that I kept when I was testing this new hidden,
> disabled user accounts behavior in Vista.
>
> NOTES ON HIDING AND DISABLING ACCOUNTS IN VISTA
>
> If all user created administrator accounts are 'hidden' and the Built-In
> Administrator account is 'disabled', a standard account will not be able
> to elevate any function, even in Safe Mode.
>
> You can use the old style login dialog to log on to a 'hidden' account in
> normal or safe mode.
>
> You cannot use the old style login dialog to log on with a 'disabled'
> account in normal or safe mode.
>
> You cannot use this old style dialog to log onto the built-in admin
> account in safe mode if it is disabled (default) when a user created
> administrator account is present, even if the user created account is
> hidden.
>
> If any account is 'hidden', it will not be visible on the login screen,
> even in Safe Mode. The only way to log on with a 'hidden' account is if
> you have the old style login dialog enabled.
>
> If the only user created administrator account is 'hidden', the built-in
> administrator account will not appear on the login screen in Safe Mode.
>
> If the only user created administrator account is 'disabled' the built-in
> administrator account will appear in safe mode.
>
> If the only user created administrator account has been corrupted or
> deleted the built-in administrator account will appear in safe mode.
>
> The CTRL+ALT+DEL keyboard combination no longer works the way it did in
> previous versions of windows. It is now used to provide a 'Trusted Path'
> in Vista to prevent malicious prgrams from intercepting a users logon
> credentials. It will 'not' bring up the old style login dialog at the
> welcome screen in normal or safe mode.
>
> If you want to hide user accounts, the safest way is to enable the old
> style logon dialog when you hide the accounts. This must be done using the
> Group Policy Editor (Business, Enterprise, Ultimate) or in the registry
> (Home Basic, Home Premium). This will still give you access to those
> hidden accounts, without making them visible.
>
> --
>
> Ronnie Vernon
> Microsoft MVP
> Windows Shell/User
>
>
> "Blue Max" <mailrichard@xxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:E2157E8A-28DF-43EB-BCCB-D390A170B719@xxxxxx

>>> Actually, you can 'disable' an account in Vista, either by using the
>>> option you describe or from a command line. Unfortunately, the resulting
>>> behavior has been changed in Vista. If you disable a user account, that
>>> account will no longer be available, anywhere. The CTRL+ALT+DEL behavior
>>> has changed in Vista. You can no longer use this keyboard combination to
>>> bring up the old style login dialog. If you disable or hide a user
>>> account, that account will no longer appear even in Safe Mode. As a
>>> result, you must be very careful when disabling or hiding any user
>>> account.
>>
>> This is pretty scary stuff! Why didn't they build in a feature that
>> would prevent the user from hiding or disabling the only remaining
>> administrator account? It doesn't take a psyhic to foresee that there
>> are going to be some really angry users down the road who fall prey to
>> this oversight; potientially at great cost to themselves or their
>> business entity.
>
 

My Computer

C

camsat

#17
"Ronnie Vernon MVP" wrote:

> "kmarkum via WindowsKB.com" <u38668@xxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:7a7db784a4180@xxxxxx

> > Thanks Ronnie, I appreciate the help. Actually I had already accomplished
> > that and the account is hidden, but you have confirmed that I did it
> > correctly, I was looking for the way to use that account occasionally
> > from
> > the Welcome Screen, as I did in XP, but it doesn't seem that will be
> > possible.
> > It appears that this account will need to be unhidden before it can be
> > used,
> > which kinda defeats the purpose, in my opinion.
> >
> > Is this possible in other vista versions? Would you know if there is a
> > posibility that this functionality might reappear in a service pack, due
> > to
> > popular demand, or is it gone forever? Where would one make this request
> > of
> > Microsoft, if it is a possibility, or can you pass it on?
>
> Hi KMarkum
>
> This works the same in all versions of Vista. It's doubtful that this will
> be changed since it's part of the security model for Vista, but anything is
> possible. :) Here is a link you can use to provide feedback on this problem.
> They do read these messages.
>
> Vista Feedback:
> https://feedback.windowsvista.microsoft.com/default.aspx?productkey=winvista
>

> >
> > It seems there is the option to require Ctrl-Alt-Del, with no Welcome
> > Screen,
> > and "Don't remember last login name", but that would disable quick user
> > switching. I might like to try that to see how it works. Is that
> > possible
> > in Visata Home Premium, and would you outline the steps to accomplish
> > this.
> > Thanks in advance! I have learned much from your other posts, that show
> > up
> > on many sites.
>
>
> Go to Start and type regedt32.exe. In the results, right click
> regedit32.exe and select the Run As Administrator option.
>
> *Warning, you should always backup the registry prior to making any
> changes.*
>
> Navigate to the following location:
>
> HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Policies\System
>
> Double click the following value and change the value data setting.
>
> DontDisplayLastUserName (Change the Value Data to 1 (one) and click OK)
>
> This will cause the login dialog to appear automatically, where you must
> enter a user name and password to log in.
>
> If you also want to require that users press CTRL+ALT+DEL prior to seeing
> the login dialog appear, you can create the following registry value.
>
> HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Policies\System
>
> In the right side pane, right click and select New / DWORD (32-bit) Value.
> Name this value DisableCAD (Case sensitive) double click the new dword
> and make sure the Value Data is set to 0 (Zero) click OK.
>
> Exit the registry editor and reboot to see the changes. You will be required
> to press CTRL+ALT+DEL and enter a user name and password to login.
>
> NOTE: the CTRL+ALT+DEL option is now used to simply provide a trusted path.
> In other words to make sure that someone is physically logging onto the
> system as opposed to a malicious program trying to login. This is not
> required to make the login dialog appear.
>
> --
>
> Ronnie Vernon
> Microsoft MVP
> Windows Shell/User
>

> > Ronnie Vernon MVP wrote:

> >>KMarkum
> >>
> >>First, a Warning. Be very careful when hiding user accounts in Vista. If
> >>you
> >>hide the only available administrative account, you can effectively lock
> >>yourself out of performing any tasks that require administrative
> >>privileges
> >>on the system. This is because the CTRL+ALT+DEL procedure is no longer an
> >>option at the login screen. Also, if you hide the only user created,
> >>visible, administrator account on the system you will not be able to log
> >>on
> >>with this account, even in Safe Mode. Also, if you hide the only visible
> >>administrator account, you will also not be able to logon with the
> >>Built-in
> >>Administrator account in Safe Mode. You must have administrator privileges
> >>to hide or un-hide a user account in Vista.
> >>
> >>In Vista when you hide a user profile, it is really "hidden". You cannot
> >>access this account in normal or Safe mode.
> >>
> >>Hide Users from the Welcome Screen
> >>
> >>Go to Start and type: regedit.exe Right click regedit.exe in the
> >>results
> >>and select the Run As Administrator option.
> >>
> >>Navigate to the following registry key:
> >>
> >>HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows
> >>NT\CurrentVersion\Winlogon\SpecialAccounts\UserList
> >>
> >>If the SpecialAccounts and UserList keys are not there, you will need to
> >>create them.
> >>
> >>Right click the Winlogon key and select New/Key from the menu.
> >>Name the Key SpecialAccounts (Case sensitive)
> >>Right click the SpecialAccounts Key and select New/Key.
> >>Name this Key UserList (Case sensitive)
> >>
> >>With the UserList key selected, right click in the right side pane and
> >>select New / DWORD Value (32-bit).
> >>Name this Value the same exact name of the user account that you want
> >>hidden.
> >>
> >>Double click this Value and place a 0 (Zero) in the Value Data line. Click
> >>OK.
> >>
> >>This will prevent the user from showing up on the welcome screen.
> >>
> >>Do this for each account you want hidden.
> >>
> >>>>Most everything that you can do with the MMC can be done in the home
> >>>>versions using direct registry edits.
> >>[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> >>>
> >>> Thanks.
> >
> > --
> > Message posted via http://www.windowskb.com
> >
> I am an administrator on this version of Vista. I was in the process of adding a password. On completion, I noticed that the software has made me a Standard user, and can get no access to anything. This was not a typing error. Any suggestions. Come back XP all is forgiven!
 

My Computer

R

Ronnie Vernon MVP

#18
"camsat" <camsat@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news:D6D9CB24-DFE9-4B37-8266-3083BF10086D@xxxxxx

>I am an administrator on this version of Vista. I was in the process of
>adding a password. On completion, I noticed that the >software has made me
>a Standard user, and can get no access to anything. This was not a typing
>error. Any suggestions. >Come back XP all is forgiven!
Camsat

The only way you can change an administrator account to a standard user
account is if you explicitly make this change in the User Accounts component
in Control Panel.

What do you see when you click your account picture on the Start Menu? You
should see your account name, type of account, and whether or not it is
password protected.

If it shows as a standard user there, you can boot to Safe Mode and the
Built-in Administrator account will available there. You can login with that
account, go to Control Panel/User Accounts and change your standard account
back to an administrator account.

To boot to Safe Mode, restart the computer and start tapping the F8 key
until you see a black screen with a menu. Use the arrow keys to select Safe
Mode and press Enter.

--

Ronnie Vernon
Microsoft MVP
Windows Shell/User
 

My Computer

J

jason

#19
I just want to uninstall Babylon when i try to do there is an error message
like "Uninstall program cannot remove Babylon.exe (Error 5)
possible reason:Another user is using the application.Please make sure no
other user is using Babylon right now and try again.
By the way i have another user account for guests.I m irremediable.I can not
disable the other account and i can not uninstall Babylon.

Thanks..
 

My Computer

J

Julia DB

#20
I have a related issue. I routinely copy Word and WordPerfect Templates into
the Application Data folder. I have been able to do this in Vista until
recently. At some point, I replaced Normal.dot, but now I cannot even see
the contents of the folder. I have to be able to access these files.
Suddenly, I am getting the message Access Denied. How can I accomplish this?

"Ronnie Vernon MVP" wrote:

> "kmarkum via WindowsKB.com" <u38668@xxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:7a7db784a4180@xxxxxx

> > Thanks Ronnie, I appreciate the help. Actually I had already accomplished
> > that and the account is hidden, but you have confirmed that I did it
> > correctly, I was looking for the way to use that account occasionally
> > from
> > the Welcome Screen, as I did in XP, but it doesn't seem that will be
> > possible.
> > It appears that this account will need to be unhidden before it can be
> > used,
> > which kinda defeats the purpose, in my opinion.
> >
> > Is this possible in other vista versions? Would you know if there is a
> > posibility that this functionality might reappear in a service pack, due
> > to
> > popular demand, or is it gone forever? Where would one make this request
> > of
> > Microsoft, if it is a possibility, or can you pass it on?
>
> Hi KMarkum
>
> This works the same in all versions of Vista. It's doubtful that this will
> be changed since it's part of the security model for Vista, but anything is
> possible. :) Here is a link you can use to provide feedback on this problem.
> They do read these messages.
>
> Vista Feedback:
> https://feedback.windowsvista.microsoft.com/default.aspx?productkey=winvista
>

> >
> > It seems there is the option to require Ctrl-Alt-Del, with no Welcome
> > Screen,
> > and "Don't remember last login name", but that would disable quick user
> > switching. I might like to try that to see how it works. Is that
> > possible
> > in Visata Home Premium, and would you outline the steps to accomplish
> > this.
> > Thanks in advance! I have learned much from your other posts, that show
> > up
> > on many sites.
>
>
> Go to Start and type regedt32.exe. In the results, right click
> regedit32.exe and select the Run As Administrator option.
>
> *Warning, you should always backup the registry prior to making any
> changes.*
>
> Navigate to the following location:
>
> HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Policies\System
>
> Double click the following value and change the value data setting.
>
> DontDisplayLastUserName (Change the Value Data to 1 (one) and click OK)
>
> This will cause the login dialog to appear automatically, where you must
> enter a user name and password to log in.
>
> If you also want to require that users press CTRL+ALT+DEL prior to seeing
> the login dialog appear, you can create the following registry value.
>
> HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Policies\System
>
> In the right side pane, right click and select New / DWORD (32-bit) Value.
> Name this value DisableCAD (Case sensitive) double click the new dword
> and make sure the Value Data is set to 0 (Zero) click OK.
>
> Exit the registry editor and reboot to see the changes. You will be required
> to press CTRL+ALT+DEL and enter a user name and password to login.
>
> NOTE: the CTRL+ALT+DEL option is now used to simply provide a trusted path.
> In other words to make sure that someone is physically logging onto the
> system as opposed to a malicious program trying to login. This is not
> required to make the login dialog appear.
>
> --
>
> Ronnie Vernon
> Microsoft MVP
> Windows Shell/User
>

> > Ronnie Vernon MVP wrote:

> >>KMarkum
> >>
> >>First, a Warning. Be very careful when hiding user accounts in Vista. If
> >>you
> >>hide the only available administrative account, you can effectively lock
> >>yourself out of performing any tasks that require administrative
> >>privileges
> >>on the system. This is because the CTRL+ALT+DEL procedure is no longer an
> >>option at the login screen. Also, if you hide the only user created,
> >>visible, administrator account on the system you will not be able to log
> >>on
> >>with this account, even in Safe Mode. Also, if you hide the only visible
> >>administrator account, you will also not be able to logon with the
> >>Built-in
> >>Administrator account in Safe Mode. You must have administrator privileges
> >>to hide or un-hide a user account in Vista.
> >>
> >>In Vista when you hide a user profile, it is really "hidden". You cannot
> >>access this account in normal or Safe mode.
> >>
> >>Hide Users from the Welcome Screen
> >>
> >>Go to Start and type: regedit.exe Right click regedit.exe in the
> >>results
> >>and select the Run As Administrator option.
> >>
> >>Navigate to the following registry key:
> >>
> >>HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows
> >>NT\CurrentVersion\Winlogon\SpecialAccounts\UserList
> >>
> >>If the SpecialAccounts and UserList keys are not there, you will need to
> >>create them.
> >>
> >>Right click the Winlogon key and select New/Key from the menu.
> >>Name the Key SpecialAccounts (Case sensitive)
> >>Right click the SpecialAccounts Key and select New/Key.
> >>Name this Key UserList (Case sensitive)
> >>
> >>With the UserList key selected, right click in the right side pane and
> >>select New / DWORD Value (32-bit).
> >>Name this Value the same exact name of the user account that you want
> >>hidden.
> >>
> >>Double click this Value and place a 0 (Zero) in the Value Data line. Click
> >>OK.
> >>
> >>This will prevent the user from showing up on the welcome screen.
> >>
> >>Do this for each account you want hidden.
> >>
> >>>>Most everything that you can do with the MMC can be done in the home
> >>>>versions using direct registry edits.
> >>[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> >>>
> >>> Thanks.
> >
> > --
> > Message posted via http://www.windowskb.com
> >
>
 

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