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Vista NAS Issue - FAT32 Network Drives

P

phillfri

#1
As most are aware, Vista has its share of networking issues, NAS access being
one of them. I have a Coolmax CN-550 NAS. I can access the shares on my NAS
if I use the common work around for the protocol utilized by Vista to access
a NAS, but even after applying that work around, attempting to access a
subfolder on a share will cause Windows Explorer in Vista to freeze, and the
only way you can get Windows Explorer to work right again is to reboot Vista.
Windows Explorer may 'look' like its recovered sometimes, but it hasn't and
network access will not be working correctly. According to Coolmax's tech
support, this problem exists with access to any NAS device that utilizes
FAT32 as its file format. They say that other NAS manufacturer's are
reporting the same issue with FAT32 formatted NAS devices. And as I've seen
no one find a solution to this issue, including Microsoft, I'm inclined to
believe Coolmax.

So, if this is your problem, all you can do is wait for Vista to fix the
issue, which sadly they seem in no hurry to address - if they ever will
address it.
 

My Computer

K

Kerry Brown

#2
On a NAS the file system is irrelevant to the clients other than the maximum
file size and things like file name length. The NAS is accessing the file
system. Vista is accessing the NAS. I think they are trying to wish the
problem away instead of fixing it. Have you tried turning off the receive
window auto-tuning in Vista?

--
Kerry Brown
Microsoft MVP - Shell/User
http://www.vistahelp.ca


"phillfri" <phillfri@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:BF40FC01-4308-4585-B7E1-047FCE98BD1B@microsoft.com...
> As most are aware, Vista has its share of networking issues, NAS access
> being
> one of them. I have a Coolmax CN-550 NAS. I can access the shares on my
> NAS
> if I use the common work around for the protocol utilized by Vista to
> access
> a NAS, but even after applying that work around, attempting to access a
> subfolder on a share will cause Windows Explorer in Vista to freeze, and
> the
> only way you can get Windows Explorer to work right again is to reboot
> Vista.
> Windows Explorer may 'look' like its recovered sometimes, but it hasn't
> and
> network access will not be working correctly. According to Coolmax's tech
> support, this problem exists with access to any NAS device that utilizes
> FAT32 as its file format. They say that other NAS manufacturer's are
> reporting the same issue with FAT32 formatted NAS devices. And as I've
> seen
> no one find a solution to this issue, including Microsoft, I'm inclined to
> believe Coolmax.
>
> So, if this is your problem, all you can do is wait for Vista to fix the
> issue, which sadly they seem in no hurry to address - if they ever will
> address it.
 

My Computer

P

phillfri

#3
Thanks for the response. I will certainly try your advice. I'll try anything
at this point :>)

I doubt the issue is NAS inability to access the file structure. The NAS
works fine on Windows XP. And my wireless network devices are Vista
Qualified. Actually, on occassion the NAS actually will go down into
subfolders on a share. But when it does, it will only last until one goes
back up the share directory tree, when Windows Explorer freezes.

I also note that sometimes Windows Vista won't allow me to even access the
NAS administration through my browser - can't get past the login on the NAS.
I can still access the NAS from a Windows XP machine when this happens.

Given all that I've experienced to date, and the fact that the NAS works
fine on WIndows XP, this seems an issue of Windows Vista's re-written TCP/IP
stack and network access code altering net access in some manner that is not
in conformance with NAS standards as implemented on many NAS boxes currently
in existence.

"Kerry Brown" wrote:

> On a NAS the file system is irrelevant to the clients other than the maximum
> file size and things like file name length. The NAS is accessing the file
> system. Vista is accessing the NAS. I think they are trying to wish the
> problem away instead of fixing it. Have you tried turning off the receive
> window auto-tuning in Vista?
>
> --
> Kerry Brown
> Microsoft MVP - Shell/User
> http://www.vistahelp.ca
>
>
> "phillfri" <phillfri@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:BF40FC01-4308-4585-B7E1-047FCE98BD1B@microsoft.com...
> > As most are aware, Vista has its share of networking issues, NAS access
> > being
> > one of them. I have a Coolmax CN-550 NAS. I can access the shares on my
> > NAS
> > if I use the common work around for the protocol utilized by Vista to
> > access
> > a NAS, but even after applying that work around, attempting to access a
> > subfolder on a share will cause Windows Explorer in Vista to freeze, and
> > the
> > only way you can get Windows Explorer to work right again is to reboot
> > Vista.
> > Windows Explorer may 'look' like its recovered sometimes, but it hasn't
> > and
> > network access will not be working correctly. According to Coolmax's tech
> > support, this problem exists with access to any NAS device that utilizes
> > FAT32 as its file format. They say that other NAS manufacturer's are
> > reporting the same issue with FAT32 formatted NAS devices. And as I've
> > seen
> > no one find a solution to this issue, including Microsoft, I'm inclined to
> > believe Coolmax.
> >
> > So, if this is your problem, all you can do is wait for Vista to fix the
> > issue, which sadly they seem in no hurry to address - if they ever will
> > address it.

>
>
 

My Computer

K

Kerry Brown

#4
Most NAS devices use samba for file sharing. There are known problems with
older versions of samba and Vista. If the manufacturer of the NAS releases a
firmware update with a newer version of samba it should work. In the
meantime there are a few workarounds such as lowering the authentication
level for Vista, turning off the receive window auto-tuning in Vista, and
disabling uPnP on the NAS if it supports it. If none of those work and the
NAS manufacturer isn't interested in updating the firmware then the device
won't work with Vista. Vista is using newer standards for networking than
some older NAS devices.

--
Kerry Brown
Microsoft MVP - Shell/User
http://www.vistahelp.ca


"phillfri" <phillfri@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:38D71E54-3B59-4E1A-8CA6-DAF31100AA96@microsoft.com...
> Thanks for the response. I will certainly try your advice. I'll try
> anything
> at this point :>)
>
> I doubt the issue is NAS inability to access the file structure. The NAS
> works fine on Windows XP. And my wireless network devices are Vista
> Qualified. Actually, on occassion the NAS actually will go down into
> subfolders on a share. But when it does, it will only last until one goes
> back up the share directory tree, when Windows Explorer freezes.
>
> I also note that sometimes Windows Vista won't allow me to even access the
> NAS administration through my browser - can't get past the login on the
> NAS.
> I can still access the NAS from a Windows XP machine when this happens.
>
> Given all that I've experienced to date, and the fact that the NAS works
> fine on WIndows XP, this seems an issue of Windows Vista's re-written
> TCP/IP
> stack and network access code altering net access in some manner that is
> not
> in conformance with NAS standards as implemented on many NAS boxes
> currently
> in existence.
>
> "Kerry Brown" wrote:
>
>> On a NAS the file system is irrelevant to the clients other than the
>> maximum
>> file size and things like file name length. The NAS is accessing the file
>> system. Vista is accessing the NAS. I think they are trying to wish the
>> problem away instead of fixing it. Have you tried turning off the receive
>> window auto-tuning in Vista?
>>
>> --
>> Kerry Brown
>> Microsoft MVP - Shell/User
>> http://www.vistahelp.ca
>>
>>
>> "phillfri" <phillfri@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news:BF40FC01-4308-4585-B7E1-047FCE98BD1B@microsoft.com...
>> > As most are aware, Vista has its share of networking issues, NAS access
>> > being
>> > one of them. I have a Coolmax CN-550 NAS. I can access the shares on my
>> > NAS
>> > if I use the common work around for the protocol utilized by Vista to
>> > access
>> > a NAS, but even after applying that work around, attempting to access a
>> > subfolder on a share will cause Windows Explorer in Vista to freeze,
>> > and
>> > the
>> > only way you can get Windows Explorer to work right again is to reboot
>> > Vista.
>> > Windows Explorer may 'look' like its recovered sometimes, but it hasn't
>> > and
>> > network access will not be working correctly. According to Coolmax's
>> > tech
>> > support, this problem exists with access to any NAS device that
>> > utilizes
>> > FAT32 as its file format. They say that other NAS manufacturer's are
>> > reporting the same issue with FAT32 formatted NAS devices. And as I've
>> > seen
>> > no one find a solution to this issue, including Microsoft, I'm inclined
>> > to
>> > believe Coolmax.
>> >
>> > So, if this is your problem, all you can do is wait for Vista to fix
>> > the
>> > issue, which sadly they seem in no hurry to address - if they ever will
>> > address it.

>>
>>
 

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Messages
30
#5
Yeah, your NAS appliance is most likely running Samba. But it's really not the NAS manufacturer's fault that you're having interoperability problems. The Samba guys had to reverse engineer everything because of Microsoft's monopolistic business practices.

Two years on from the historic antitrust ruling, the Commission contends that Microsoft still hasn’t provided the necessary information, and the Commission is poised to issue a new antitrust ruling against the company for failing to comply with its 2004 decision.
FROM: Samba creator refutes Microsoft claims in EU case | InfoWorld | News | 2006-04-28 | By Paul Meller, IDG News Service

Once it gives over the protocols, "Microsoft no longer has a stranglehold over the world's networks," said Andrew Tridgell, whose group took years to create print and file server software that works with Windows.
FROM: In Microsoft case, EU judges delve into technology | Tech News on ZDNet
 

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P

phillfri

#6
I will try all these tricks, thank you :>) But to me it seems irrational that
the software OS shouldn't be compatible with an installed hardware base worth
millions of $ to the OS's users, especially when we're talking about a
technology that has been around/standard for years and is fully capable of
fulfilling the function for which it was designed. If this were a new
technology it might be understandable, but its not. I think MS' past success
has warped their ability to think rationally.

"Kerry Brown" wrote:

> Most NAS devices use samba for file sharing. There are known problems with
> older versions of samba and Vista. If the manufacturer of the NAS releases a
> firmware update with a newer version of samba it should work. In the
> meantime there are a few workarounds such as lowering the authentication
> level for Vista, turning off the receive window auto-tuning in Vista, and
> disabling uPnP on the NAS if it supports it. If none of those work and the
> NAS manufacturer isn't interested in updating the firmware then the device
> won't work with Vista. Vista is using newer standards for networking than
> some older NAS devices.
>
> --
> Kerry Brown
> Microsoft MVP - Shell/User
> http://www.vistahelp.ca
>
>
> "phillfri" <phillfri@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:38D71E54-3B59-4E1A-8CA6-DAF31100AA96@microsoft.com...
> > Thanks for the response. I will certainly try your advice. I'll try
> > anything
> > at this point :>)
> >
> > I doubt the issue is NAS inability to access the file structure. The NAS
> > works fine on Windows XP. And my wireless network devices are Vista
> > Qualified. Actually, on occassion the NAS actually will go down into
> > subfolders on a share. But when it does, it will only last until one goes
> > back up the share directory tree, when Windows Explorer freezes.
> >
> > I also note that sometimes Windows Vista won't allow me to even access the
> > NAS administration through my browser - can't get past the login on the
> > NAS.
> > I can still access the NAS from a Windows XP machine when this happens.
> >
> > Given all that I've experienced to date, and the fact that the NAS works
> > fine on WIndows XP, this seems an issue of Windows Vista's re-written
> > TCP/IP
> > stack and network access code altering net access in some manner that is
> > not
> > in conformance with NAS standards as implemented on many NAS boxes
> > currently
> > in existence.
> >
> > "Kerry Brown" wrote:
> >
> >> On a NAS the file system is irrelevant to the clients other than the
> >> maximum
> >> file size and things like file name length. The NAS is accessing the file
> >> system. Vista is accessing the NAS. I think they are trying to wish the
> >> problem away instead of fixing it. Have you tried turning off the receive
> >> window auto-tuning in Vista?
> >>
> >> --
> >> Kerry Brown
> >> Microsoft MVP - Shell/User
> >> http://www.vistahelp.ca
> >>
> >>
> >> "phillfri" <phillfri@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> >> news:BF40FC01-4308-4585-B7E1-047FCE98BD1B@microsoft.com...
> >> > As most are aware, Vista has its share of networking issues, NAS access
> >> > being
> >> > one of them. I have a Coolmax CN-550 NAS. I can access the shares on my
> >> > NAS
> >> > if I use the common work around for the protocol utilized by Vista to
> >> > access
> >> > a NAS, but even after applying that work around, attempting to access a
> >> > subfolder on a share will cause Windows Explorer in Vista to freeze,
> >> > and
> >> > the
> >> > only way you can get Windows Explorer to work right again is to reboot
> >> > Vista.
> >> > Windows Explorer may 'look' like its recovered sometimes, but it hasn't
> >> > and
> >> > network access will not be working correctly. According to Coolmax's
> >> > tech
> >> > support, this problem exists with access to any NAS device that
> >> > utilizes
> >> > FAT32 as its file format. They say that other NAS manufacturer's are
> >> > reporting the same issue with FAT32 formatted NAS devices. And as I've
> >> > seen
> >> > no one find a solution to this issue, including Microsoft, I'm inclined
> >> > to
> >> > believe Coolmax.
> >> >
> >> > So, if this is your problem, all you can do is wait for Vista to fix
> >> > the
> >> > issue, which sadly they seem in no hurry to address - if they ever will
> >> > address it.
> >>
> >>

>
>
 

My Computer

K

Kerry Brown

#7
"phillfri" <phillfri@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:79EC13ED-BB8D-4818-93C4-4FC038564002@microsoft.com...
>I will try all these tricks, thank you :>) But to me it seems irrational
>that
> the software OS shouldn't be compatible with an installed hardware base
> worth
> millions of $ to the OS's users, especially when we're talking about a
> technology that has been around/standard for years and is fully capable of
> fulfilling the function for which it was designed. If this were a new
> technology it might be understandable, but its not. I think MS' past
> success
> has warped their ability to think rationally.
>



I don't totally disagree with you. I can see programming for the newest
standards. At the same time you should be able to fall back to the old
standards if needed.

--
Kerry Brown
Microsoft MVP - Shell/User
http://www.vistahelp.ca
 

My Computer

D

David Sharman

#8
So how does one turn off receive window auto tuning in vista then? I'm not
sure how to get there in Vista.

David

"Kerry Brown" wrote:

> "phillfri" <phillfri@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:79EC13ED-BB8D-4818-93C4-4FC038564002@microsoft.com...
> >I will try all these tricks, thank you :>) But to me it seems irrational
> >that
> > the software OS shouldn't be compatible with an installed hardware base
> > worth
> > millions of $ to the OS's users, especially when we're talking about a
> > technology that has been around/standard for years and is fully capable of
> > fulfilling the function for which it was designed. If this were a new
> > technology it might be understandable, but its not. I think MS' past
> > success
> > has warped their ability to think rationally.
> >

>
>
> I don't totally disagree with you. I can see programming for the newest
> standards. At the same time you should be able to fall back to the old
> standards if needed.
>
> --
> Kerry Brown
> Microsoft MVP - Shell/User
> http://www.vistahelp.ca
>
>
>
 

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K

Kerry Brown

#9
"David Sharman" <DavidSharman@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:9C43CF2B-E9D0-40A8-BBAA-81A45F6BDD53@microsoft.com...
> So how does one turn off receive window auto tuning in vista then? I'm
> not
> sure how to get there in Vista.
>



http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=vista+turn+off+receive+window+autotuning&meta=

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=vista+turn+off+receive+window+autotuning+site:microsoft.com

http://search.live.com/results.aspx?q=vista+turn+off+receive+auto+tuning&form=QBRE

http://search.live.com/results.aspx...ive+auto+tuning+site:microsoft.com&FORM=SSRE3

The above searches will help.

--
Kerry Brown
Microsoft MVP - Shell/User
http://www.vistahelp.ca
 

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P

Paul Stotts

#10
Hi David,
Open a Command Prompt and type 'netsh interface tcp show global' to see the
settings.
Try 'netsh interface tcp set global /?' to see the options.
Run cmd.exe as root, (elevated), and type 'netsh interface tcp set global
autotuning=disable'.

Paul


"David Sharman" <DavidSharman@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:9C43CF2B-E9D0-40A8-BBAA-81A45F6BDD53@microsoft.com...
> So how does one turn off receive window auto tuning in vista then? I'm
> not
> sure how to get there in Vista.
>
> David
>
> "Kerry Brown" wrote:
>
>> "phillfri" <phillfri@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news:79EC13ED-BB8D-4818-93C4-4FC038564002@microsoft.com...
>> >I will try all these tricks, thank you :>) But to me it seems irrational
>> >that
>> > the software OS shouldn't be compatible with an installed hardware base
>> > worth
>> > millions of $ to the OS's users, especially when we're talking about a
>> > technology that has been around/standard for years and is fully capable
>> > of
>> > fulfilling the function for which it was designed. If this were a new
>> > technology it might be understandable, but its not. I think MS' past
>> > success
>> > has warped their ability to think rationally.
>> >

>>
>>
>> I don't totally disagree with you. I can see programming for the newest
>> standards. At the same time you should be able to fall back to the old
>> standards if needed.
>>
>> --
>> Kerry Brown
>> Microsoft MVP - Shell/User
>> http://www.vistahelp.ca
>>
>>
>>
 

My Computer

T

Travis

#11
Phill:

Although my Western Digital MyBook World Edition is formatted in NTFS I
and (many, many) other folks are experiencing the exact same trauma as
you are trying to access it, particularly with the new Vista Backup
program.

I have attempted most, but not all, of the fixes mentioned by Kerry,
but to no avail.

The "Receive Window Auto Tuning" thing is a new one on me, which I'm a
bit dubious about, but at this point I'll try anything.

The fact that no less than 5 of my clients, all with NAS drives which
worked flawlessly under XP Professional, now have the same nightmare to
deal with proves that something is Rotten in Denmark (or Redmond, as the
case may be).

I'm usually not a chronic complainer and I don't mind doing hours or
research on a problem with Vista if it eventually bears fruit, but in
this instance I (and seemingly everybody else) have simply hit a brick
wall, which means in this case the problem is definitely not "BTKATC"
(Between The Keyboard And The Chair).

Whether these drives run on Samba 1.0 or 3.0 Microsoft is obligated to
provide some sort of backward compatibility with them; expecting Western
Digital, Seagate, Buffalo, or Iomega to update the operating systems on
what was probably a fairly inexpensive drive to begin with is probably
not going to happen. The fact that they all worked just fine under XP
proves that it can't be too great a leap for MS to keep them in the
"technology loop" for Vista as well.

Accordingly I don't think it's too much to ask that some real, live
Microsoft employees "get with the program" and give us some much-needed
and well-deserved tech support; I mean, it's not like we haven't tried
to help ourselves at this point.

Well, here's hoping, anyway...


--
Travis
Posted via http://www.vistaheads.com
 

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G

Gunrunnerjohn

#12
Welcome to the club. :-)

I have two NAS drives, a Metalgear 3207 and the Hawking HNAS1, neither work
properly with Vista.

The interesting thing is that I can actually use the Metalgear one with Vista if
I don't browse to it with Windows Explorer! I use an alternate explorer, the
2xExplorer, and it finds the drive and browses just fine. So, this is not just
a networking issue, but rather something in the middle of Windows that seems to
choke on some of these NAS products. The Hawking one will work if I map a
network drive, but I can't browse to it with either Windows Explorer or
2xExplorer, so it has a subtly different issue.

I'm very disappointed that Vista broke so much network equipment, and didn't
even provide an alternate configuration method to solve some of these issues.



On Fri, 7 Sep 2007 10:36:11 +0100, Travis
<Travis.2wjbhl@xxxxxx-mx.forums.vistaheads.com> wrote:

>
>Phill:
>
>Although my Western Digital MyBook World Edition is formatted in NTFS I
>and (many, many) other folks are experiencing the exact same trauma as
>you are trying to access it, particularly with the new Vista Backup
>program.
>
>I have attempted most, but not all, of the fixes mentioned by Kerry,
>but to no avail.
>
>The "Receive Window Auto Tuning" thing is a new one on me, which I'm a
>bit dubious about, but at this point I'll try anything.
>
>The fact that no less than 5 of my clients, all with NAS drives which
>worked flawlessly under XP Professional, now have the same nightmare to
>deal with proves that something is Rotten in Denmark (or Redmond, as the
>case may be).
>
>I'm usually not a chronic complainer and I don't mind doing hours or
>research on a problem with Vista if it eventually bears fruit, but in
>this instance I (and seemingly everybody else) have simply hit a brick
>wall, which means in this case the problem is definitely not "BTKATC"
>(Between The Keyboard And The Chair).
>
>Whether these drives run on Samba 1.0 or 3.0 Microsoft is obligated to
>provide some sort of backward compatibility with them; expecting Western
>Digital, Seagate, Buffalo, or Iomega to update the operating systems on
>what was probably a fairly inexpensive drive to begin with is probably
>not going to happen. The fact that they all worked just fine under XP
>proves that it can't be too great a leap for MS to keep them in the
>"technology loop" for Vista as well.
>
>Accordingly I don't think it's too much to ask that some real, live
>Microsoft employees "get with the program" and give us some much-needed
>and well-deserved tech support; I mean, it's not like we haven't tried
>to help ourselves at this point.
>
>Well, here's hoping, anyway...
John Will
Microsoft MVP - Networking
 

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T

thetaxwizard

#13
I have been tearing the rest of my hair out over this issue and finally
found a solution from another forum I frequent. It has something to
with tightened network security in Vista. The solution is to loosen it
up as in XP.

Since I am currently at an XP machine, I can only tell you how to get
to the setting via XP - if memory serves, the Vista avenue is the same

1. Access the Security Policy editor - Start, run, secpol.msc
2. Local Policy
3. Security Options
4. Scroll to Network Security: LAN Manager Authentication level
5. The default, I believe, is "Send LM responses". Change it to: Send
LM and NTLM - use NTLMv2 session security if negotiated.

Obviously I am not a Network Administrator, just a lowly tax
accountant. Nevertheless, I wanted to pass this on to as many as I can.
Once I made this change, VOILA! Access problems to my NAS were a thing
of the past. Now, if they would only complicate the tax code some
more......

Bruce Tyler
Lancaster, CA


--
thetaxwizard
------------------------------------------------------------------------
thetaxwizard's Profile: http://forums.techarena.in/member.php?userid=31456
View this thread: http://forums.techarena.in/showthread.php?t=740877

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Travis

#14
Thanks for the input Mr Wizard, as we need all the help we can get.

However and unfortunately, your possible solution is mentioned in
several other places on this Forum and others, and was one of the first
ones I tried, with absolutely no success; it has also proven equally
fruitless on my clients' Vista / NAS drive scenarios, as well, so (as I
think we all realize by now) it's not just unique to any one particular
set-up.

It does, however, make Vista work much better with XP clients on the
same network, so it definitely has some value there.

Please continue your efforts though, as we all are, to find a fix for
this debilitating problem which each and every one of us face in trying
to back up our Vista machines to a huge number of garden-variety NAS
drives.

The bad news seems to be that, despite all our attempts to find some
kind of viable work-around, the ultimate solution lies with Microsoft
getting off their backsides and fixing the code that's screwing all this
up; it's an operating system bug (or oversight), plain and simple. :mad:


--
Travis
Posted via http://www.vistaheads.com
 

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T

Thane

#15
I have the same problem. does make Vista loo a bit silly really !
I've been through all the posts and seem MS does not really care about it
(they want us to by MS home server and bin our NAS boxes).

I'm very disapointed

"Travis" wrote:

>
> Thanks for the input Mr Wizard, as we need all the help we can get.
>
> However and unfortunately, your possible solution is mentioned in
> several other places on this Forum and others, and was one of the first
> ones I tried, with absolutely no success; it has also proven equally
> fruitless on my clients' Vista / NAS drive scenarios, as well, so (as I
> think we all realize by now) it's not just unique to any one particular
> set-up.
>
> It does, however, make Vista work much better with XP clients on the
> same network, so it definitely has some value there.
>
> Please continue your efforts though, as we all are, to find a fix for
> this debilitating problem which each and every one of us face in trying
> to back up our Vista machines to a huge number of garden-variety NAS
> drives.
>
> The bad news seems to be that, despite all our attempts to find some
> kind of viable work-around, the ultimate solution lies with Microsoft
> getting off their backsides and fixing the code that's screwing all this
> up; it's an operating system bug (or oversight), plain and simple. :mad:
>
>
> --
> Travis
> Posted via http://www.vistaheads.com
>
>
 

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