Watched Folders

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Geoff Coupe

Windows Live Photo Gallery (build 12.0.1308.1023) does not appear to watch
for metadata changes in image files.

It will take XMP metadata from image files to construct the initial Tag
list, but if images have their XMP Keyword metadata subsequently changed by
other applications, then WLPG does not recognise this.

Google's Picasa, on the other hand, does watch for changes, and will
automatically synchronise its internal Tag list with external changes in XMP
metadata on image files.

WLPG should take a leaf out of Picasa's book and automatically synchronise
Tag changes. Otherwise, it is not suitable for consideration as part of a
digital workflow involving multiple tools.

--
Geoff Coupe

http://gcoupe.spaces.live.com/ - the Blog
http://flickr.com/photos/gcoupe - the Photos
http://www.librarything.com/catalog/gcoupe - the Library
 

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BTHOEM

On 27 Nov, 21:28, "Geoff Coupe" <[email protected]> wrote:

Geoff,

My experience is that this works well, as long as you update the XMP-
metadata. Have not tested with IPTC metadata.

I have used PixVue to copy tags from one photo (tagged in WLPG) to
another photo (in PixVue). WLPG identifies the update almost
immediately.

Bjørn Tore
 

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Geoff Coupe

"BTHOEM" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]

> On 27 Nov, 21:28, "Geoff Coupe" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Geoff,
>
> My experience is that this works well, as long as you update the XMP-
> metadata. Have not tested with IPTC metadata.
>
> I have used PixVue to copy tags from one photo (tagged in WLPG) to
> another photo (in PixVue). WLPG identifies the update almost
> immediately.
>
> Bjørn Tore
Bjørn,

Strange, because I *am* updating the XMP metadata - but on my Vista machine,
WLPG is certainly *not* updating its Tag list, while Picasa does.

If you're using PixVue, then you must be running on Windows XP (since Eamon
Coleman never produced a version for Vista). Perhaps that explains the
difference in behaviour...

For the record, I'm using IDimager Personal V4 (www.idimager.com) to edit
the metadata. This handles both legacy IPTC/IIM metadata as well as the
newer, XMP-based, IPTC Core.

Thanks for responding.

Geoff Coupe
 

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Geoff Coupe

"BTHOEM" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]

> My experience is that this works well, as long as you update the XMP-
> metadata. Have not tested with IPTC metadata.
>
Bjørn,

Because of your message, I've been experimenting further on this. It's all
very odd. On some images files, changing the Keywords/Tags will cause WLPG
to update automatically; on other image files, nothing happens in WLPG.

I have no idea why some files will work, and other not. Perhaps it is
something to do with how the XMP metadata has been constructed over time -
some structures cause WLPG to choke. Other tools (e.g. Picasa) don't seem to
fall over, but it would seem that WLPG is overly sensitive to something in
the XMP structure.

Thanks,

Geoff Coupe
 

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Geoff Coupe

OK, I think I've got to the bottom of what may be going on.

Bjørn Tore reported that on his system, WLPG *does* watch folders and keep
Tags in sync with changes made by other metadata editors. As a result, I've
been looking again and found the following:

1) some of my image files *do* trigger WLPG to update its Tag list; other
files don't.
2) All the files are JPEGs - so the reason for the difference is not the
file format.
3) For some files, the list of Tags (Keywords) for a file that is displayed
in WLPG and the Vista Windows Explorer is *different* from the list of IPTC
Core for XMP Keywords for the file. These are supposed to be the same.
4) As far as I can see, these are the files that fail to trigger a WLPG
update, when the IPTC Core for XMP Keywords are modified outside of WLPG.

My suspicion is that somewhere along the line, the XMP metadata used by
Microsoft for WLPG has got out of step with the XMP metadata used by the
IPTC Core schema on those files. Then, even though IPTC Core for XMP
metadata was changed, WLPG would not pick it up if it first checks its
internal XMP structures (and assumes that these are always in synch with
IPTC Core metadata.

I had to force a change on WLPG tags to trigger a resync between my workflow
tools. Hopefully, these will now continue in sync.

Geoff Coupe

http://gcoupe.spaces.live.com/ - the Blog
http://flickr.com/photos/gcoupe - the Photos
http://www.librarything.com/catalog/gcoupe - the Library
 

My Computer

J

JeffJ

"Geoff Coupe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]

> It will take XMP metadata from image files to construct the initial Tag
> list, but if images have their XMP Keyword metadata subsequently changed
> by other applications, then WLPG does not recognise this.
Not only in other applications. It doesn't seem to recognize metadata that
was written by *itself* either. As a test, I just tagged roughly 100 photos
with a keyword, then logged in on another account on this machine, and WLPG
refuses to notice that the tags have been updated on those photos.

--
Regards,
Jeff
 

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BTHOEM

Jeff,

No problem on my system (Win XP - WLPG 2008).

Tags (even hierachial) are rebuilding just fine on another machine.

Bjørn Tore
 

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BTHOEM

Geoff,

I suspect you are in to something.

My test shows that as long as you work on XMP metadata, it works fine.
However, WLPG seems to write tags both as IPTC and XMP, but only
delete XMP - leaving the IPTC metadata behind.

I installed IDImager lite v3 (free) and added keywords and description
to a photo without any tags (fresh). WLPG instantly detected the
changes. Then I deleted the keywords in WLPG. Opened the photo in
IDImager. The XMP metadata was gone, but the IPTC metadata was still
there.

I have also discovered another issue.

WLPG supports hierarchical tags like ALBUM/SPORTS/Autumn Cup 2007. The
delimiter introduced by WLPG is "/". When added in WLPG, the hierachy
builds just fine. If I add the same hierachical tag in IDImager, WLPG
will not build it - it becomes a flat tag "ALBUM/SPORTS/Autumn Cup
2007".

Bjørn Tore
 

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Geoff Coupe

"BTHOEM" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]

>
> WLPG supports hierarchical tags like ALBUM/SPORTS/Autumn Cup 2007. The
> delimiter introduced by WLPG is "/". When added in WLPG, the hierachy
> builds just fine. If I add the same hierachical tag in IDImager, WLPG
> will not build it - it becomes a flat tag "ALBUM/SPORTS/Autumn Cup
> 2007".
>
Yes, the problem is that IDimager (and iMatch) uses a different delimiter.
They both use a period (.) to denote hierarchy. So in these DAMs, your
hierarchical tag would be ALBUM.SPORTS.Autumn Cup 2007. I'll ask Hert (the
developer of IDimager) whether he would consider adding a feature to choose
the delimiter character for a future version...

Geoff Coupe
 

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G

Geoff Coupe

"BTHOEM" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]

>
> WLPG supports hierarchical tags like ALBUM/SPORTS/Autumn Cup 2007. The
> delimiter introduced by WLPG is "/". When added in WLPG, the hierachy
> builds just fine. If I add the same hierachical tag in IDImager, WLPG
> will not build it - it becomes a flat tag "ALBUM/SPORTS/Autumn Cup
> 2007".
>
Further to my last message, I asked the developer of IDimager if he would
consider adding a feature to allow people to select the hierarchy delimiter.
He's said that it will be in the next update:
http://forum.idimager.com/viewtopic.php?t=5582

So at that point, the two tools will automatically keep the tag hierarchy in
sync with each other...

Geoff Coupe
 

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