Solved Why must updating Vista be so difficult?

haku6

Member
To whom it may concern:

I am on this forum on behalf of a friend who does not know chalk from cheese - that stuff the moon is not made from - about computers and who is still - the poor soul - on Vista. So, from time to time, I check his machine to see whether everything functions and is up to date. Before, I have noticed that Vista can be an absolute pain, but yesterday and today - yes, problems have lasted overnight! - I have been confronted with a cascade of events that would drive many a normal soul to Apple.

To wit:

Finally, I convinced my friend to install Explorer 9 - if only to be on par with... Windows' updates. So, I downloaded the IE 9 install program (unfortunately directly from Microsoft, where downloads without fail take ages to complete and which my download accelerator seems usually unable to catch - or catch too late).

But what do you know? When wanting to install the program, I got an error message saying more or less that one or more Vista Service Packs needed to run that new IE version were not installed. As usual, Microsoft seems unable to determine such things beforehand - in fact, Microsoft is unable to determine anything beforehand and just lets the user spend precious hours in trying to install things only to have her or him establish in the middle or even towards the end of an - often hugely time-consuming - process that you need something else before being able to install one or other d*** thing.

That annoyance aside, I did indeed notice after checking that neither SP2 or for that matter SP1 had been installed - despite the fact that updates are set on "automatic" on that particular machine, which, if everything had been in order, would have installed those service packs long ago.

So far so good. Consequently, I proceeded to download both Vista SP1 and SP2 - again with a huge Microsoft download time: more than 15 minutes each ; my friend's is a 32bit machine, but still... this is unheard of for 450 MB files.

Then, finally, on to trying to install SP1. The initial notice said this operation could take up one hour or more, with several restarts to boot (no pun intended). No explanation why just an update should take so long, or should need the constant attendance of the user (but all right, we've seen worse coming from Microsoft. Little did I know what lay in store for me now! About 3/4 of an hour into the operation - a sudden error message: the Service Pack installation could not proceed because of an "internal error". Looking up what that unspecified internal error could be and what one could do about it, several Microsoft pages instructed what to do. Or rather: suggested several tryouts, which one should apply in turn in the exact sequence. All this ridiculous rigmarole amounted to download yet another update, to control the capability of the system to be... updated (KB947821) - I am not making this up!

So, I download said update and started to install it. First, it 'initialed the installation', which went relatively fast - at least compared to other Microsoft operations. But then, oh then, the installation itself again took ages. At first nothing seemed to happen on the installation progress bar, although there was a lot of disk (and cooling fan) activity. Then at last, after one hour, the d*** thing was almost done, when I inadvertently hit the Escape key. And, what do you know, the whole installation was annulled!!! One wonders what these people at Redmond are thinking of when conceiving whatever. Does it not enter in one of these lofty brains that, let alone that an Escape hit annuls an operation, at least a check whether annulling an operation was intended?

So - onto another try to install that update about updates (of course, at Microsoft no one seems to be aware of "resuming an operation" - but one has to go through the whole process again. And after again almost done - another error message saying that... an internal error prevented, etc.

Checking the Microsoft sites again, again another cascade of instructions. So, onto downloading and installing a so-called "Fix-It" utility to resolve update problems. And what do you know? After some activity, an error message saying that the "power shell utility" could not be downloaded due to... an internal error.

I GIVE UP.

This ridiculous series of inane, from pillar to post vicious circles is enough to drive someone up the wall.

More important: what can I do about this? (Notifying Microsoft has usually no effect whatsoever, despite assurances to the contrary.) My friend is financially not ready to disburse the hefty Microsoft upgrade sum to migrate to Windows 7 (which has its own host of of problems: I should know, I'm using it), so this has to be resolved within Vista. There is nothing wrong with his machine as such - and no presence of any virus either: all the usual suspects have been checked and re-checked. To all intents I include a system specs file and a hijack log from the machine in question (an otherwise reliable Toshiba Satellite laptop). If more documentation is needed, I'll gladly pass on anything else that's wanted.

Thanks beforehand.

Greetings

haku6
 

Attachments

  • hijackthis.log
    10.1 KB · Views: 28
  • Specs Vista Machine.txt
    703.2 KB · Views: 33

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Update
Well, we tried once more to install SP1 today, hoping to proceed with SP2.
First, we ran the KB947821 utility again (see first message) - this time leaving it on for a whole night. And, glory upon glory, when we checked this morning, it appeared that the installation had run its course and had been successful (KB947821 is NOT an installation, by the way, but a check and repair of possibly corrupted system files).
Then, onto the lengthy installation of SP1. This time no such luck. About an estimated 3/4 of an hour into the operation, up came the by now ubiquitous message, signalling that an "internal error" prevented SP1 to be installed.
So, apart from a utility that has apparently done its job, we're still cooling our digital feet at square one.

Any help forthcoming? Thanks.

haku6
 

My Computer

My Computer

System One

  • CPU
    Dual L5639 // i7 950 @ 4.0Ghz
    Motherboard
    Evga SR-2 // Gigabyte x58a-ud3r
    Memory
    12Gig Corsair XMS3 // 6Gig OCZ Gold
    Graphics Card(s)
    gtx 560 ti // gtx 260-216
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dual 22" // Headless
    Hard Drives
    OCZ aGILITY 3, 120Gig + Seagate 500Gig x 2
    PSU
    Silverstone da700 // Corsair 520hx
    Case
    Rosewill BlackHawk Ultra // Antec 900v1
    Cooling
    Twin CM Hyper 212+ // Noctua NH-u12
    Other Info
    Acer 8930 laptop with x9100...
Hello haku6 and welcome to the forums :party:

Copy and paste the contents of the System Update Readiness Tool (SURT) log into your next post please:

C:\Windows\Logs\CBS\CheckSUR.persist.log

Tom
 

My Computer

System One

  • Manufacturer/Model
    Build #1
    CPU
    Intel Core i7 3770K @4.4GHz
    Motherboard
    ASUS P8Z77-V PRO
    Memory
    Corsair Vengeance 2x4GB DDR3 1600MHz Low Profile (White)
    Graphics Card(s)
    Gigabyte Radeon HD 7850 (2GB GDDR5)
    Sound Card
    Integrated on motherboard
    Monitor(s) Displays
    23" LG LCD/LED IPS
    Screen Resolution
    1920*1080
    Hard Drives
    Samsung EVO 128GB SSD
    Seagate Barracuda 2TB 7200rpm
    2x500GB Seagate FreeAgent 5400rpm
    PSU
    Corsair TX650W V2 (80+ Bronze)
    Case
    NZXT Phantom 410
    Cooling
    Corsair H100 Water Cooler, 1x140mm and 1x120mm stock fans
    Keyboard
    Microsoft Desktop 2000 Wireless Keyboard
    Mouse
    Microsoft Desktop 2000 Wireless Mouse
    Internet Speed
    95 Mb/s Download 70 Mb/s Upload
Hello Patond & tom982,

Thanks for your replies. I'll be able to access the Vista machine again next Saturday & Sunday - and let you know by then.

Tom: Will try to get the <C:\Windows\Logs\CBS\CheckSUR.persist.log> before that and forward it to you.

Patond: Looked up the <http://www.askvg.com/direct-download...VG+%28AskVG%29> link. Two questions:
1) It appears that this ISO download is an Ultimate version - and my friend's version is a Home Premium, Dutch language edition. Won't such differences [and the product keys] clash?
2) If it all right to use those ISO files, will it "just" be an update, or a complete re-install, meaning that the configuration will be lost?

Thanks again to you both.

haku6
 

My Computer

Here is a procedure and some links that I found in my files from the time I installed SP1 (4 years ago). I draw your attention to the fact that there were 3 prerequisite KBs (2 for Home Premium) that needed to be installed first. Maybe that info helps.


If you would like to install the SP1, please select KB935509, KB937287 and
KB938371 to install and then do the following steps to install
SP1.
Generally, of installation issues can occur if certain third party
programs are running in the background during the upgrade (especially third
party firewall, antivirus programs etc). As a result, Vista SP1 cannot be
downloaded completely and the installation will fail. Therefore, I suggest we
first perform the following steps to directly download Vista SP1 on our website
in Normal Mode and then install it in Clean Boot mode to avoid software
conflicts.
Before we try to install Vista SP1, please understand installing
Vista SP1 requires a minimum of 5 GB free disk space on the Windows partition.
The recommended free disk space is as follows:
• 7 GB Recommended for 32-bit
Windows Vista
• 12 GB Recommended for 64-bit Windows Vista
Therefore,
please make sure you have enough free disk space before installing Vista
SP1.
If you are using a branded computer, which is also known as an OEM
(Original Equipment Manufacturer) PC, the hardware and applications on your
computer are highly customized by the original computer manufacturer. Therefore,
the standard version of Vista SP1 may not be fully compatible with the computer
system. At this point, I recommend contacting the computer manufacturer first
before installing Vista SP1. Please ask them if any of the software applications
and hardware drivers need to be updated for Vista SP1. Otherwise, installing
Vista SP1 may cause unexpected problems. Thank you for your understanding.

http://thebackroomtech.com/2008/04/07/using-checksur-to-repair-windows-vista-update-problems/


http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows//bb968895.aspx


http://support.microsoft.com/kb/936330
 

My Computer

System One

  • Manufacturer/Model
    Dell
    CPU
    Q6600
    Memory
    4GB
    Monitor(s) Displays
    HP w2207h
    Hard Drives
    2x250GB HDDs
    1x60GB OCZ SSD
    6 external disks 60 to 640GBs
    Other Info
    Also 1xHP desktop, 1xHP laptop, 1xGateway laptop
Thanks for your reply WHS!

As said before to the other "repliers", I'll be able to access my friend's machine by next weekend and try out your solution.

Meanwhile, some questions, confirmations and small problems with regard to your reply:

- My friend's computer is a Toshiba Satellite 660, which came with Vista Home Premium 32-bit pre-installed. At this point in time, I can not check whether that version is an OEM or not (I guess it must be judging from the specs I attached to my first message on this forum).
- I have by now mailed to Toshiba Europe to ask them specifically about this and check if updates from their side are indeed available or necessary.
- My friend has more than plenty of HD space (together with an exterior HD it's 2TB - but even on C: there is more than sufficient space).
- As you may notice in my previous messages, the using-checksur-to-repair-windows-vista-update-problems utility has already been tried out, and was as such successful (after several tries!)
- When you say "clean boot", do you mean I have to disable startup, etc. files via msconfig, or is a safe boot (I guess with Internet capability) via F8 sufficient?
- Apart from those startup at boot files, I exited all other third party programs running in the background before all my attempts to install SP1. This as a matter of course: contrary to my friend, who remains a PC dilettante after all these years, I know a thing or two about computers. Still, to be confronted with this...

Consequently, as the title of this discussions says, and is confirmed with every step: Why must updating Vista be so difficult?

Thanks again, however.

Greetings,

haku6
 
Last edited:

My Computer

Haku6. The Vista copy is Ultimate, BUT my understanding of that copy is it will ONLY install the version that your key is for. Being Ultimate it has all the features, so for Home Premium, it just leaves out stuff.

You will need all the Toshiba drivers as well.

Why is it difficult to upgrade?? Saddly you got the 1 in 100 machine thats being bitchy. I've never run ibnto a problem with my machines, however my mothers machine wouldn't find SP1 and had to get manually installed.

I blame toshiba... They added a line of code i think that makes you fustrated so you can just buy a new one ;)
 

My Computer

System One

  • CPU
    Dual L5639 // i7 950 @ 4.0Ghz
    Motherboard
    Evga SR-2 // Gigabyte x58a-ud3r
    Memory
    12Gig Corsair XMS3 // 6Gig OCZ Gold
    Graphics Card(s)
    gtx 560 ti // gtx 260-216
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dual 22" // Headless
    Hard Drives
    OCZ aGILITY 3, 120Gig + Seagate 500Gig x 2
    PSU
    Silverstone da700 // Corsair 520hx
    Case
    Rosewill BlackHawk Ultra // Antec 900v1
    Cooling
    Twin CM Hyper 212+ // Noctua NH-u12
    Other Info
    Acer 8930 laptop with x9100...
1. If it is a Toshiba that came with Vista, it is 100% an OEM.
2. Clean Boot = Safe Mode. That is to avoid the startup programs, especially the AV.
3. I installed SP1 and SP2 on several systems and never had a problem.
4. Here is my account of one of the first SP1 installations from 4 years ago:

Vista SP1 Installation – Experience report


Encouraged by many positive reports about the SP1 installation, I gave it a
try on one system. To report the result immediately: It went extremely well in
less than 1 hour and everything seems to be working as before. Here is the
installation sequence:


1. I first went to msconfig and disabled the start-ups and all services other
than the MS services (hide – important, else your system will not work).


2. I started the installation from Windows Update – fortunately it was there
because it had disappeared twice previously (MS seems to do that for load
balancing of their servers). I kept an exact time log which might be interesting
for those who will install later. It is obvious that the timings may vary
depending on your system and the line load. But in relative terms it might still
be interesting.


4.30 PM – Download started
4.38 – 50% of download completed
4.49 – 100%
of download completed (it made a long pause at 89% and 94%)
4.49 – Preparing
to install – Installation Wizard shows up – accept, next, etc.
4.58 –
Successfully installed
4.58 – asks for Restart – Starts configuration of
update (made a long pause at 65%)
5.10 - Stage 1 configuration
complete
5.12 – Stage 2 configuration complete – automatic System
Restart
5.15 – start of stage 3
5.18 - Stage 3 complete
5.21 – System
back up and running –did “enable All" and Restart
5.25 – Back in business



3. I did not really notice any immediate difference to before SP1
(yes-Search is missing, but we knew that was coming). Restart seems to be just
as slow as before and the rest works normal. I hope that helps to encourage the
ones who are waiting to install. I was very hesitant myself, but now I will
install it on my other systems too.


Update: I just noticed that all restore points (shadows) were cleared - so
you may think you gained space on your OS disk (usually C:). But now you cannot
depend on system restore if something happens soon after SP1 install. Better
write a shadow immediately.
 

My Computer

System One

  • Manufacturer/Model
    Dell
    CPU
    Q6600
    Memory
    4GB
    Monitor(s) Displays
    HP w2207h
    Hard Drives
    2x250GB HDDs
    1x60GB OCZ SSD
    6 external disks 60 to 640GBs
    Other Info
    Also 1xHP desktop, 1xHP laptop, 1xGateway laptop
Hi Patonb,

I guess you're right about that Toshiba machine. And, as said, I'll know more by next weekend. (Toshiba's ways are not to my liking either: they want you to phone them instead of mailing them for technical problems - how complicated can you get?) Still, the ways of Microsoft remain often mysterious and convoluted...

By the way and aside from that, I just migrated on a new machine to Windows 7 64-bits, which has its own set of quirks. They do not seem as severe as some my dilettante friend had to endure through the years on Vista (although the drawbacks there could simply be due to that incapability to update to SP1, then SP2). Regarding Win7, I'll only mention the minor problem of some thumbnails not showing on a 64-bit OS, problem which necessitates downloading a whole array of codecs, etc. Why these cannot just be integrated in the OS is beyond me. But that's another story, belonging to your Windows 7 forum, which I have been consulting quite often since the migration.

Thanks again for following this discussion. I'm grateful.

haku6
 

My Computer

Hi WHS,

As Patonb suggested, the problems may be due to that darned Toshiba OEM Vista version. I wouldn't be surprised, given the huge amount of Toshiba files and utilities included at boot or startup - and which I cannot put "out of service" ; indeed, when I do that, some OS functions seem to go awry. Be that as it may, the first thing I'll try next weekend is to install the SP's on a clean (safe) boot. If the Toshiba theory is correct, then it might go without problem this time.

Grateful for your reply about the OEM: now I don't have to get in touch with Toshiba Support, which cannot be reached by mail but by (costly 070 number) telephone in Belgium. How cheap can you get?

Well, I'll let you know by next weekend. I have a faint feeling that everything will work out this time, now I am armed with several more possibilities.

Thanks again.

haku6
 

My Computer

Hello haku6 and welcome to the forums :party:

Copy and paste the contents of the System Update Readiness Tool (SURT) log into your next post please:

C:\Windows\Logs\CBS\CheckSUR.persist.log

Tom

Hi Tom,

Just received the CheckSUR.persist.log per mail from my friend. You will find the file in attachment to this reply.

When checking the log, I was astounded at the amount of items that had to be fixed and noticed further in the summary that:

a) The operation took a full hour and a quarter (no wonder, with so many errors to fix).
b) One error - a corrupted file - was not fixed. Could that be - uneducated guess - the culprit for the failing SP1 installation?

Bye - for now.

haku6
 

Attachments

  • CheckSUR.persist.log
    363.3 KB · Views: 18

My Computer

Hello haku6 and welcome to the forums :party:

Copy and paste the contents of the System Update Readiness Tool (SURT) log into your next post please:

C:\Windows\Logs\CBS\CheckSUR.persist.log

Tom

Hi Tom,

Just received the CheckSUR.persist.log per mail from my friend. You will find the file in attachment to this reply.

When checking the log, I was astounded at the amount of items that had to be fixed and noticed further in the summary that:

a) The operation took a full hour and a quarter (no wonder, with so many errors to fix).
b) One error - a corrupted file - was not fixed. Could that be - uneducated guess - the culprit for the failing SP1 installation?

Bye - for now.

haku6

Hello haku6,

Yes, that's a heck of a lot of errors you've got there!

Found 938 errors
Fixed 937 errors

Here's the one that it couldn't fix:

(f) CBS MUM Corrupt 0x80070026 servicing\packages\WUClient-SelfUpdate-Aux-TopLevel~31bf3856ad364e35~x86~~7.2.6001.784.mum Line 1: Ä

I'll source a clean copy of this tomorrow and upload it here - I've got a lecture in about 5 hours' time and I really need some sleep!

Tom
 

My Computer

System One

  • Manufacturer/Model
    Build #1
    CPU
    Intel Core i7 3770K @4.4GHz
    Motherboard
    ASUS P8Z77-V PRO
    Memory
    Corsair Vengeance 2x4GB DDR3 1600MHz Low Profile (White)
    Graphics Card(s)
    Gigabyte Radeon HD 7850 (2GB GDDR5)
    Sound Card
    Integrated on motherboard
    Monitor(s) Displays
    23" LG LCD/LED IPS
    Screen Resolution
    1920*1080
    Hard Drives
    Samsung EVO 128GB SSD
    Seagate Barracuda 2TB 7200rpm
    2x500GB Seagate FreeAgent 5400rpm
    PSU
    Corsair TX650W V2 (80+ Bronze)
    Case
    NZXT Phantom 410
    Cooling
    Corsair H100 Water Cooler, 1x140mm and 1x120mm stock fans
    Keyboard
    Microsoft Desktop 2000 Wireless Keyboard
    Mouse
    Microsoft Desktop 2000 Wireless Mouse
    Internet Speed
    95 Mb/s Download 70 Mb/s Upload
Many thanks Tom! Looking forward to receive that clean copy... and do you ever sleep? :sleepy:

haku6

Not as much as I should! Oh well, it's freshers week for me :party:
 

My Computer

System One

  • Manufacturer/Model
    Build #1
    CPU
    Intel Core i7 3770K @4.4GHz
    Motherboard
    ASUS P8Z77-V PRO
    Memory
    Corsair Vengeance 2x4GB DDR3 1600MHz Low Profile (White)
    Graphics Card(s)
    Gigabyte Radeon HD 7850 (2GB GDDR5)
    Sound Card
    Integrated on motherboard
    Monitor(s) Displays
    23" LG LCD/LED IPS
    Screen Resolution
    1920*1080
    Hard Drives
    Samsung EVO 128GB SSD
    Seagate Barracuda 2TB 7200rpm
    2x500GB Seagate FreeAgent 5400rpm
    PSU
    Corsair TX650W V2 (80+ Bronze)
    Case
    NZXT Phantom 410
    Cooling
    Corsair H100 Water Cooler, 1x140mm and 1x120mm stock fans
    Keyboard
    Microsoft Desktop 2000 Wireless Keyboard
    Mouse
    Microsoft Desktop 2000 Wireless Mouse
    Internet Speed
    95 Mb/s Download 70 Mb/s Upload
Must be sitting behind a computer - best sleep time inhibitor ever;)

lol, yeah something like that. Too many distractions and too many people with Windows Update issues! :p

WUClient-SelfUpdate-Aux-TopLevel~31bf3856ad364e35~x86~~7.2.6001.784.mum

In my limited time of dealing with Windows Update errors, I've only come across one error like this before. The "WUClient" bit indicates that it's an update for Windows Update. Because it's such a rarity, it makes it a right pain to trace. I keep finding .mum files with different version numbers to the one that we want and I've drawn blank after blank so I'm going to have to phone a friend for this one :p He's a very busy person, so please bear with me whilst I wait to hear from him! :)

Tom
 

My Computer

System One

  • Manufacturer/Model
    Build #1
    CPU
    Intel Core i7 3770K @4.4GHz
    Motherboard
    ASUS P8Z77-V PRO
    Memory
    Corsair Vengeance 2x4GB DDR3 1600MHz Low Profile (White)
    Graphics Card(s)
    Gigabyte Radeon HD 7850 (2GB GDDR5)
    Sound Card
    Integrated on motherboard
    Monitor(s) Displays
    23" LG LCD/LED IPS
    Screen Resolution
    1920*1080
    Hard Drives
    Samsung EVO 128GB SSD
    Seagate Barracuda 2TB 7200rpm
    2x500GB Seagate FreeAgent 5400rpm
    PSU
    Corsair TX650W V2 (80+ Bronze)
    Case
    NZXT Phantom 410
    Cooling
    Corsair H100 Water Cooler, 1x140mm and 1x120mm stock fans
    Keyboard
    Microsoft Desktop 2000 Wireless Keyboard
    Mouse
    Microsoft Desktop 2000 Wireless Mouse
    Internet Speed
    95 Mb/s Download 70 Mb/s Upload
Hi Tom,

Do please take your time. Meanwhile I'm going to try the "simplest" procedure: Clean (safe) boot, then attempt to install SP1 with what I have now (an almost completely update ready system checked with Checksur). Then we'll see if that one .mum file may be the culprit). If that does not work, an attempt to do the same with a 'genuine' installation update pack downloaded from Microsoft as suggested by several of the 'repliers' to this discussion. Then we'll see.

Thanks again for your suggestions.:D

Bye.

haku6
 

My Computer

Windows Update Package Replacement

Warning: this fix is specific to the user in this thread. No one else should follow these instructions as it may cause more harm than good. If you are after assistance, please start a thread of your own.


  1. Please download the attached file, Packs.zip and save this to your Desktop.
  2. Right-click on the file and select Extract All...
  3. Tick the box labelled Show extracted files when complete then click Extract
  4. A window will open showing two folders, Manifests and Packages
  5. Open the Manifests folder and copy the files into the following folder (if there are any files)

    C:\Windows\Temp\CheckSur\Winsxs\Manifests
  6. Open the Packages folder and copy the files into the following folder (if there are any files)

    C:\Windows\Temp\CheckSur\Servicing\Packages
  7. Run the System Update Readiness Tool (SURT) again
  8. When the SURT finishes installing, copy (Ctrl + C) and paste (Ctrl + V) the contents of the SURT log into your next post please:

    C:\Windows\Logs\CBS\CheckSUR.persist.log
 

Attachments

  • Packs.zip
    2.2 KB · Views: 4

My Computer

System One

  • Manufacturer/Model
    Build #1
    CPU
    Intel Core i7 3770K @4.4GHz
    Motherboard
    ASUS P8Z77-V PRO
    Memory
    Corsair Vengeance 2x4GB DDR3 1600MHz Low Profile (White)
    Graphics Card(s)
    Gigabyte Radeon HD 7850 (2GB GDDR5)
    Sound Card
    Integrated on motherboard
    Monitor(s) Displays
    23" LG LCD/LED IPS
    Screen Resolution
    1920*1080
    Hard Drives
    Samsung EVO 128GB SSD
    Seagate Barracuda 2TB 7200rpm
    2x500GB Seagate FreeAgent 5400rpm
    PSU
    Corsair TX650W V2 (80+ Bronze)
    Case
    NZXT Phantom 410
    Cooling
    Corsair H100 Water Cooler, 1x140mm and 1x120mm stock fans
    Keyboard
    Microsoft Desktop 2000 Wireless Keyboard
    Mouse
    Microsoft Desktop 2000 Wireless Mouse
    Internet Speed
    95 Mb/s Download 70 Mb/s Upload
Hello Tom!

Have already downloaded & unpacked Packs.zip and put it in the directories you mentioned. Manifest did not contain any files. Packages contained one. Will run SURT again round about 7pm, just before we leave home, leaving the Vista machine do its job (last time a quite lengthy process). On our return, I'll mail you the results and the Checksur log.

Beginning to feel a bit guilty on account of taking up so much of your time with this matter. Since we will be back home late, you can check the new reply tomorrow morning. I wouldn't want to be the one depriving you of still more sleep!:confused:

haku6
 

My Computer

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