Why is one of my hard drives 5x faster than the others?

SANDPIPER8

New Member
Greetings all

Perhaps someone here can suggest a solution (or reason) for the following problem I am experiencing:

I frequently run a very processor and memory intensive photo blending process.

However I am having wildly different process times with a given set of images depending upon which HDD holds the images

I have 4 hard drives as follows:

2 x 250gb HDD in (software) raid 0 , these are my fastest HDD's according to hdtach tests
– vista 64 is installed on the raid
1x 500gb HDD no raid (slowest by HDtach test)
1x1TB HDD no raid but about 90% as fast as Raided disks according to hdtach test


If I copy my images to the RAID drives and then perform the photo blend process , the process time is about 20 minutes
If I copy the same files to the 500gb HDD , the process time is similar

If I copy the same files to the 1TB HDD , the process time is about 4 minutes

What I notice is that the files are loading very slowly from the raid drives and the 500gb drive and very fast from the 1TB drive.
The 1TB HDD does have NCQ but I didnt think NCQ would make that much difference.

all drives are optimised in the device manager for performance
I have 8GB system ram
and a 8GB pagefile on each HDD

The differences in process time seem to me to be beyond the differences in HDD speeds,

So, can anyone suggest what other factors could be causing the big differences in process times
between HDD's

Cheers
Phil
 

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Wow. Lol.
That is up there in strangeness with my "Dude" virus....

So I am assuming that all these are hooked up with aftermarket SATA cables, and they are all 7,200 RPM Correct??

They do have 15,000 RPM drives, I am assuming that the 1TB drive is not one of them.


What is the cache and buffer on each drive, and how full are they?

Which drives are newer, and which ones old?

Which drive is the photo blending program installed on??


~Lordbob
 

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Hi sendpiper8, welcome to the board.

It is very interesting but I could come up with any definite answers for that. However, Lordbob's question below brought to attention that if the blending program is installed in the RAID drives and the data is in the 1T drive, then it appears the job is shear amount 3 drives. Therefore it is quicker.:D

Also, the amount of cache on the HDD is also a factor.

Which drive is the photo blending program installed on??
~Lordbob

It is really interested know the real answer; however, reputation point for Lordbob!:D
 

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Yay for rep points! Thank you much bruce!

I was thinking that if the program was installed on the "fast" drive then the program would blend it faster, not the other way around.

~Lordbob
 

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    NVidia GeForce 9500GT 1Gb
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    Samsung SyncMaster 206bw
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    Samsung SP2514N ATA 250Gb 7200RPM
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Hi

the ultra 40 workstation has 4 hard drive bays, all you do is push the HDD into its slot to install, no cables required.
all drives are 7200 rpm sata ii

the oldest are hitachi hdt722525dla380 250gb x2 , they have 8 mb cache
these are in raid 0, about 465gb usable/220gb free

then comes the samsung spinpoint 500gb, 16mb cache , 465gb usable/146gb free

followed by samsung hd103uj 1TB 32mb cache, 931gb usable/464gb free

the photo blending program is installed on the raid drives, same as os

the images are screenshots of the HDtach tests
 

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Last edited:

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Hi Phil and welcome to Vista Forums :party:

Your 2nd post has clarified for me some details I was wondering about in your 1st post. We can eliminate drive speed (RPM) and interface (SATA) since they are the same in each case. We will also assume that the paging file is being used equally on each drive/array.
Assuming that they have the same number of platters in each drive. The areal density of the 250GB drives will be half that of the 500GB drive, which again is half that of the 1TB drive.
So, although the transfer rate (the rate at which the drive head picks up the data from the platter) of the 250GB drive is half that of the 500GB drive, we must remember that there are 2 of these drives effectively working in parallel, so we have, in essence, a 500GB drive with a 16MB buffer (just like the actual 500GB/16MB drive). As that effectively gives the same capacity, buffer size and areal density, the results will be very similar (as you have indeed found out)
Now, let's consider the 1TB drive. The areal density of this drive is twice that of the 500GB drive, meaning that the transfer rate is doubled. In addition, the buffer size is double (32MB as opposed to 16MB). These 2 factors together yield a 4x speed increase, which ties in very well with your figures.
 

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Nice explanation Dwarf!

That clears it up for me.

Though this part confused me:
The areal density of the 250GB drives will be half that of the 500GB drive, which again is half that of the 1TB drive.
So, although the transfer rate (the rate at which the drive head picks up the data from the platter) of the 250GB drive is half that of the 500GB drive, we must remember that there are 2 of these drives effectively working in parallel, so we have, in essence, a 500GB drive with a 16MB buffer (just like the actual 500GB/16MB drive). As that effectively gives the same capacity, buffer size and areal density, the results will be very similar (as you have indeed found out)
Now, let's consider the 1TB drive. The areal density of this drive is twice that of the 500GB drive, meaning that the transfer rate is doubled. In addition, the buffer size is double (32MB as opposed to 16MB). These 2 factors together yield a 4x speed increase, which ties in very well with your figures.

If the Aerial Density was higher, wouldn't it make more sense for it to be slower writing? Yes, it would have less area to cover, but it would have to be smaller and more tightly packed....

That just didnt make sense to me.

~Lordbob
 

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Here is an explanation of Areal Density. My apologies for the length of this post and for its technological content which some may find heavy-going.

Scott Mueller said:
Areal Density

Areal density is often used as a technology growth-rate indicator for the hard disk drive industry. Areal density is defined as the product of the linear bits per inch (BPI), measured along the length of the tracks around the disk, multiplied by the number of tracks per inch (TPI), measured radially on the disk (see Figure 9.12). The results are expressed in units of megabits or gigabits per square inch (Mbit/sq. inch or Gbit/sq. inch) and are used as a measure of efficiency in drive recording technology. Current high-end 3 1/2" drives record at areal densities exceeding 60Gbit/sq. inch (such as the 400GB Hitachi 7K400, which records at 61.7Gbit/sq. inch), whereas 2 1/2" drives such as the 80GB Hitachi 5K80 record at areal densities of 70Gbit/sq. inch or more. Prototype drives with densities of 130Gbit/sq. inch or more now exist, which will enable 3 1/2" drives with capacities of 1 terabyte (TB) or more in the next few years.

9576d1232221101-why-one-my-hard-drives-5x-faster-than-others-capture.jpg


Drives record data in tracks, which are circular bands of data on the disk. Each track is divided into sectors. Figure 9.13 shows an actual floppy disk sprayed with magnetic developer (powdered iron) such that an image of the actual tracks and sectors can be clearly seen. The disk shown is a 5 1/4" 360KB floppy, which has 40 tracks per side, with each track divided into 9 sectors. Note that each sector is delineated by gaps in the recording, which precede and postcede the track and sector headers (where ID and address information resides). You can clearly see the triple gap preceding the first sector, which includes the track and sector headers. Then following in a counterclockwise direction, you see each subsequent sector, preceded by gaps delineating the header for that sector. The area between the headers is where the sector data is written.

Notice that sector 9 is longer than the others; this is to enable rotational speed differences between drives, so that all the data can be written before running into the start of the track. Also notice that a good portion of the disk surface isn’t used because it is simply impractical to have the heads travel in and out that far, and the difference in length between the sectors on the inner and outer tracks becomes more of a problem.

Areal density has been rising steadily since the first magnetic storage drive (IBM RAMAC) was introduced in 1956, initially at a growth rate of about 25% per year (doubling every four years), and since the early 1990s at a growth rate of about 60% per year (doubling every year and a half). The development and introduction of magneto-resistive heads in 1991, giant magneto-resistive heads in 1997, and AFC pixie dust media in 2001 have propelled the increase in the areal density growth rate. In the 47+ years since the RAMAC drive was introduced, the areal density of magnetic storage has increased more than 17 million fold.

At the current growth rate, within the next three years or so, drive manufacturers will achieve areal densities of approximately 100Gbit/sq. inch, which is considered near the point at which the superparamagnetic effect takes place. This is an effect in which the magnetic domains become so small that they are intrinsically unstable at room temperature. Techniques such as extremely high coercivity media and vertical polarity recording are projected to enable magnetic storage densities of 400Gbit/sq. inch or more, but beyond that, scientists and engineers will have to look toward other technologies. One such technology being considered for the future is holographic storage, in which a laser writes data three-dimensionally in a crystal plate or cube.

9577d1232221490-why-one-my-hard-drives-5x-faster-than-others-capture1.jpg


To increase areal density while maintaining the same external drive form factors, drive manufacturers have developed media and head technologies to support these higher areal densities, such as ceramic/glass platters, GMR heads, pseudo-contact recording, and PRML electronics, as discussed earlier in this chapter. The primary challenge in achieving higher densities is manufacturing drive heads and disks to operate at closer tolerances. Improvements in tolerances and the use of more platters in a given form factor continue to fuel improvements in drive capacity, but drive makers continue to seek even greater capacity increases, both by improving current technologies and by developing new ones.

To fit more data on a platter of a given size, the tracks must be placed more closely together and the heads must be capable of achieving greater precision in their placements over the tracks. This also means that as hard disk capacities increase, heads must float ever closer to the disk surface during operation. The gap between the head and disk is as close as 10 nanometers (0.01 microns) in some drives, which is approximately the thickness of a cell membrane. By comparison, a human hair is typically 80 microns in diameter, which is 8,000 times thicker than the gap between the head and disk in some drives. The prospect of actual contact or near contact recording is being considered for future drives to further increase density.

9578d1232221666-why-one-my-hard-drives-5x-faster-than-others-capture2.jpg


Increasing Areal Density with Pixie Dust

In 1990, IBM scientists discovered that a thin layer of the element ruthenium was the most effective nonmagnetic element that could be used for spacers in devices such as GMR heads. However, more than a decade passed before the first commercially available application of this principle was used to increase disk drive storage densities by improving the storage density of the drives’ platters.

In May 2001, IBM began to produce drives using “pixie dust” technology in its Travelstar 2 1/2" hard drive series for notebook computers. In November 2001, Deskstar GXP drives using the same technology were introduced, and these drives had capacities of 80GB and 120GB.

These drives achieved data densities exceeding 25Gb per square inch through the use of a thin (three-atom-thick) layer of ruthenium used to separate two magnetic surfaces on each side of the drive’s platters. Traditional drives use platters with a single magnetic surface per side. Media using the ruthenium coating, commonly referred to as pixie dust, is technically known as antiferromagnetically coupled
(AFC) media. IBM continues to use AFC media in its latest drives for notebook, desktop, and server computers and has licensed AFC media to other drive and media vendors.

AFC media was developed because achieving greater and greater densities of magnetic storage requires individual magnetic areas on the media to become smaller and smaller. However, when magnetic areas become too small, a problem called the superparamagnetic effect (which causes magnetic areas to lose their magnetism over time) can occur.

When a thin layer of ruthenium is placed between two magnetic layers, the layers are forced to orient themselves magnetically in opposite directions to each other. Although the three-layer structure is physically thicker than a conventional magnetic surface, the opposing magnetic orientations make the layers appear to be thinner than a conventional surface. As a result, disk drive read/write heads can record smaller, high-density signals, increasing the storage capacity of a given platter size without the risk of the signal degrading. Figure 9.15 compares a normal single-layer disk platter to a disk platter using pixie dust AFC media technology.

9579d1232221961-why-one-my-hard-drives-5x-faster-than-others-capture3.jpg


Just as GMR heads use two layers separated by a thin conductive layer to increase data storage density, AFC media uses a similar principle. In essence, AFC media represents an extension of GMR principles from the read/write heads to the media’s data recording surfaces. Over time, AFC media is expected to quadruple the storage capacity of magnetic media, enabling drives to reach capacities of 100Gb per square inch or more. In practical terms, such capacity could result in desktop 3 1/2'' hard drives of up to 1TB, 2 1/2'' notebook hard drives of up to 300GB, and IBM Microdrives (which have a 1'' wide platter) of 8GB or more.
 

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Last edited:

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Thanks for the reply Dwarf and others

your explanation does seem to fit my situation but I dont know if the assumption upon which it is based is actually true (ie the same number of platters for each drive), in fact I thought that the platters did increase in most cases as the HDD capacity increased.
But I really dont know either way without some further research.
The other thing that surprised me was that 32mb cache would have a doubling effect on transfer rate over 16mb, I know it is double the cache but does that really double the transfer rate? It seems like a huge bang for buck.

certainly if all this is true it will help me to select suitable HDD's for future use as the processes I use have to transfer enormous amounts of data off the HDD before processing begins.

so would it be a fair summary to say that for transferring large amounts of data as quickly as possible off a HDD to RAM ,It would be best to choose a HDD with higher capacity (ie 2TB better than 1tb) and with good READ performance?

Thanks again for the help, much appreciated

Phil
 

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Absolutely not. The actual size of the drive is not what matters there. It is the CACHE that makes the difference there. Though I still don't exactly why having a higher Aerial Density allows things to be written and read faster, I know that the cache will indeed increase it.

For example, an 8mb cache would let it write at a speed of say, 1gig/s. Ok? Its not the real number, just a hypothetical example to explain the effect of the cache.
So the 8mb cache drive, drive A, writes at a speed of 1x. A 16mb cache drive B will write at a speed of 2x. A 32mb cache drive C at 4x. So drive C is 4x faster than drive A and twice as fast as drive B. Got it?

~Lordbob
 

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I know that you were just using hypothetical figures but are you actually saying that if you double the cache size and you double the read speed?
Is this a reliable rule of thumb?
It is a big surprise to me that cache alone could make that much difference.
Regards
Phil
 

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Hi Phil,

Generally speaking it is, but drive performance depends on a host of factors such as interface type and speed (this is more pertinent to IDE devices since the maximum speed here is governed by the maximum speed of the slowest device on the cable). As well as that, it also depends on what other programs and files need to access the drive at the same time. Try disabling the paging file on the 1TB drive and see if that makes any difference. I suspect not a great deal, given the amount of memory in your system, but with very large files it could.
As regards cache size, a larger cache size will, in general, yield better performance. This is because, inspite of all the advances in technology, HDD drives are still basically electro-mechanical devices. There is a limit as to how fast data can be written to and read from the actual disk surface (platter).
A buffer (cache) is a temporary store which is used in two ways. Firstly, when writing to the disk. The system sends the data to the drive which is then stored in the buffer. This is a high-speed operation. The drive itself then writes the data in the buffer to the disk itself (a much slower operation). A larger buffer means that the system can send more data to the drive in one go, meaning that files can be transferred more quickly. Secondly, when reading data from disk, the drive can fill the buffer with data from sequentially arranged sectors. These are typically from the same file, meaning that the file can be accessed more quickly. This is also why defragmentation of the drive is beneficial - it ensures that the sectors of a file are located together and can be read sequentially.
 

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    Asus Eee PC 1011PX Netbook (Windows 7 x86 Starter)
Hi Phil,

Generally speaking it is, but drive performance depends on a host of factors such as interface type and speed (this is more pertinent to IDE devices since the maximum speed here is governed by the maximum speed of the slowest device on the cable). As well as that, it also depends on what other programs and files need to access the drive at the same time. Try disabling the paging file on the 1TB drive and see if that makes any difference. I suspect not a great deal, given the amount of memory in your system, but with very large files it could.
As regards cache size, a larger cache size will, in general, yield better performance. This is because, inspite of all the advances in technology, HDD drives are still basically electro-mechanical devices. There is a limit as to how fast data can be written to and read from the actual disk surface (platter).
A buffer (cache) is a temporary store which is used in two ways. Firstly, when writing to the disk. The system sends the data to the drive which is then stored in the buffer. This is a high-speed operation. The drive itself then writes the data in the buffer to the disk itself (a much slower operation). A larger buffer means that the system can send more data to the drive in one go, meaning that files can be transferred more quickly. Secondly, when reading data from disk, the drive can fill the buffer with data from sequentially arranged sectors. These are typically from the same file, meaning that the file can be accessed more quickly. This is also why defragmentation of the drive is beneficial - it ensures that the sectors of a file are located together and can be read sequentially.

GREAT explanation. I learned something there too, thanks.

~Lordbob
 

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Is it necessary to have 24GB worth of page file?
 

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    XFX MB-750I-72P9 NF750i
    Memory
    4096MB Corsair XMS2 PC-5400
    Graphics Card(s)
    ASUS Nvidia Geforce GTX470
    Sound Card
    ASUS Xonar DX
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dell 24" S2409W & Dell 20" E207WFP
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080 & 1680x1050
    Hard Drives
    750GB Western Digital Caviar Black & 500GB Samsung
    PSU
    750 watt Thermaltake Toughpower
    Case
    Coolermaster Dominator 690 Nvidia Edition
    Cooling
    Zalman CNPS9700-NT Cooler, 6x 120mm Chassis Fans
    Keyboard
    Logitech G11 Keyboard
    Mouse
    Logitech G5 Laser Mouse (2007 edition)
    Internet Speed
    100Mbps
    Other Info
    abit airpace 54mbps wireless PCI-E x1 card
So far i have observed my pagefile at about 16GB but that was when i was attempting a somewhat extreme test, I'm not sure how high it goes with normal use, probably not very high. you could say I am experimenting and observing.

I will attempt to make a summary of this discussion:

For the someone who specifically wants to read a lot of very large files from a HDD for processing in RAM, the best HDD will be one with a high sequential read performance. The sequential read figures will be a "real world" measure of all the other factors that effect HDD read performance such as areal density, cache, etc...

does that sound right?

Thanks for all the comments, hopefully we have all learnt something.
Cheers

Phil
 
Last edited:

My Computer

System One

  • Manufacturer/Model
    SUN MICROSYSTEMS ULTRA 40 WORKSTATION
    CPU
    twin AMD opteron 285
    Motherboard
    nvidia
    Memory
    8GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    nvidia Quadro fx1400
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dual samsung XL20
Basically. And your welcome (I learned stuff too:))

~Lordbob
 

My Computer

System One

  • Manufacturer/Model
    Custom
    CPU
    Intel Core 2 Quad Q8200 2.33GHz
    Motherboard
    ASUS P5QC
    Memory
    2x2GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    NVidia GeForce 9500GT 1Gb
    Sound Card
    Mobo
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Samsung SyncMaster 206bw
    Screen Resolution
    1680x1050
    Hard Drives
    Samsung SP2514N ATA 250Gb 7200RPM
    Samsung [Model] 1Tb 7200RPM SATA2
    PSU
    Cooler Master Real Power Pro 750W
    Keyboard
    Razer Tarantula
    Mouse
    Razer Lachesis
    Internet Speed
    not fast enough
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