Snipping tool screenshot authentication

Hovehandyman

New Member
I have windows vista home edition with snipping tool. I have been using screenshots taken during online slot gaming to show the company they have a problem, basically the game is doing something its owners say is impossible? An independant adjudicator has advised that if the company wished they could say I have manipulated the screenshots therefore refuse to investigate they also claim no court in the world would take screenshots as irrefutable evidence given that software like photshop is readily available to use for the manipulation of images?
My enquiries have shown me that they are wrong with the later point and if anyone would like to comment on that I would be interested to read those comments but what I'm realy seeeking is "how can I prove my screenshot are genuine and unmanipulated.
Thanks in advance for any answers I recieve.
 

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I'm not sure you can prove it yourself - as they say, these images could very easily be manipulated by someone using commonly-available software (to say nothing of someone with access to the very expensive and highly sophisticated products available to professionals and people with money to burn). A screenshot is, after all, just another image file - there's nothing special about it to even prove what machine it came from or when it was done or that you were actually at that site when the "screenshot" was taken (other than what is in the image which could, as they would contend, all be manipulated quite easily and with exceptional quality as well - especially if using state-of-the-art equipment and programs).

I do, however, believe those professional users of top-of-the-line equipment and programs would possibly be able to tell if the image was original or if it had been manipulated (at least if they scanned at a high enough resolution and went pixel-by-pixel over the ENTIRE image) - but I could be wrong about that depending on how the image was taken and at what resolution and using what file format and whether or not that format was converted and a host of other things that surpass my knowledge of what is and isn't possible with state-of-the-art equipment and programs. There would most likely be subtle changes in the individual pixels which they might possibly be able to detect and if none were detected it would likely be an original (but with enough time and the proper equipment - it may actually be possible to do it without being detected or where the chances of detection were very slim - and no doubt they would have experts say that no matter how careful you checked, it would still be possible (maybe not likely, but perhaps not beyond a "reasonable doubt" and while the judge may allow it in as evidence, it would be tough to convince a jury - after all, didn't Jurassic Park look real to you?)).

So my only suggestion to you would be to find such a professional company (a very good, reputable one that can withstand intensive scrutiny at all levels and that has a professional who can stand the same scrutiny and perhaps has served as an expert withness before) and see if you can pay them to CERTIFY that the image is original and has not been manipulated and then somehow get that certified image taken into evidence along with the certification so nobody can say a substitution was made or so that a substitution can't be made. They would have their own experts examine it as well looking for the SLIGHTEST pixel evidence which could cast doubt on the whole thing - and they'd only need to find one questionable pixel to do so (and such things may be unavoidable unless you too used high-end equipment to capture and save the image yourself - I'm not sure that ordinary software can produce images or files that can stand up to that level of scrutiny).

Then, of course, these people who certified it would almost certainly be strenuously questioned in court and would need to stick to their guns. Getting them to do this if they can and are willing (knowing the consequences of doing so - time in court, filling out forms, depositions, potential liability, the effort itself, etc.) and knowing that proving it ISN'T a fake takes MUCH longer than proving it is because you'd have to check absolutely everything in the most minute detail since evidence of the change could be located anywhere on the image or the file and you'd need to say you had checked everything at a certain level of detail and resolution (and you'd need to know the level required for proof and make sure they did at least that if not more detailed) would be mighty, mighty expensive. Certainly thousands, maybe tens of thousands, and possibly even more all things considered.

They too would have their own experts examine the file and probably find someone (an "expert witness" who would argue that it was still possible). As a juror, I would probably consider the POSSIBILITY that it had been manipulated - after all the conflicting testimony - to be "reasonable doubt" that the evidence could be considered absolute, irrefutable proof (no matter what "your" experts said because their "experts" would say the opposite and so I'd be left to decide on my own and, as I said earlier, with all the realistic CGI movies we've all seen and the evidence of subtle tampering their experts would present to refute that it could be undeniable, I'd probably be compelled to admit it was at least possible and so there would be doubt and I'd have to vote that you couldn't prove it enough for me to be completely without any doubt - and that is unfortunately what you'd need to do as far as I understand how these things work though I'm certainly no lawyer nor do I pretend to be).

That was my long way of saying that, IMHO, you could not PROVE the screenshots were genuine and unmanipulated to the extent necessary to remove absolutely every shred of doubt from every juror. What I can do with Photoshop is remarkable. What people with state-of-the-art equipment and programs can do is no doubt miraculous. I think you'll be lucky to reach the standard of proof to even allow the judge to admit the evidence - and impossible after all is said and done by both sides to convince the jurors. Maybe if the images had been taken using that high-end equipment, you might have a better chance (though in the end I suspect it would be the same outcome), but if done from your PC using the PRTSCR button and Paint or whatever you used I sincerely doubt you can prove it beyond "reasonable doubt."

But this is all my opinion. I don't know what state-of-the-art equipment can or can't do - and there's equipment in research labs that probably goes far beyond what's available even to those companies and professionals.

I hope this helps. Sorry it's so long, but I got caught up in the topic and wanted to try to explain things from my perspective (for whatever that's worth).

Good luck!
 

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Thank you very much for your time and very considered reply. I have found much conflicting info on the internet on this however as far as the law is concerned I found that in 1975 federal law in the States was adapted to consider image evidence and if i understand it correctly the burden of proof lies with an image being proved to be a forgery rather that proving the image is genuine. Here in the UK the parlimentary science and technology 5th report accepts that image evidence will continue to gain credibility as time passes but advises caution because of reasons you have given although image evidence cannot be cancelled out as hearsay.
I found the following page on the net: -Digital detectives discern Photoshop fakery - USATODAY.com.
Most of the articles I'm finding are well out of date the above is the newest I found apart from the pirate bay case where screenshots although challenged as unauthenticated still stand as the bulk of evidence against the accused
 

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I did no research on the laws here or in any country - I was merely attempting to address the issue of whether or not you could PROVE that your screenshot was genuine and not modified. Your last reply suggested that isn't necessary as the burden of proof is in the opposite direction - but that's not what you asked and I was trying to address what you asked (which was proving it is genuine - hence the focus of my reply).

Technology has changed radically since 1975 and if new laws aren't already on the books, they soon will be. I have no idea how they will read, but they will consider what I posted when they draft them. Furthermore, even if the court instructs the jury to consider the evidence since it wasn't PROVEN to be modified (assuming it can't be shown to be potentially modified with state-of-the-art equipment even if it wasn't modified), they may or may not take that into consideration when they vote after hearing all about how easy it is to do modifications that are almost (and they will claim are) undetectable.

The point I was trying to make (legalities aside), is that I do not believe it is possible to prove that a screenshot from an ordinary PC is genuine and was not modified without a great deal of effort and expense and state-of-the-art scrutiny (and even then, it may not be possible to prove beyond reseasonable doubt). There's no way I know of to encode or save the file so it cannot be modified.

If you programmed the PRTSCR key to instead transmit the image to the authorities over the internet in addition to saving it on your hard drive, then that might help (not sure how to do that, but I suspect someone can program it somehow). You could also have your computer monitored remotely and recorded by the authorities so they saw what you saw and saved it themselves and then the evidence might be more believeable. You can encrypt and password-protect the file, but that doesn't prove anything as the modifications could have been done before doing so (or you could have provided the means to access and re-encrypt the file to whoever else did the modifications). Of course, these only help for the future - not in proving an existing normal screenshot is genuine and unmodified.

In short, I do not know how to PROVE your existing screenshot is genuine and not modified (except as noted in the prior post). I don't think it can be done any other way (if even that way constitutes proof). There's no program or software I know of that can verify that a file has never been modified.

The legal aspects are beyond the scope of this forum.

I hope this helps.

Good luck!
 

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System One

  • Manufacturer/Model
    Dell Inc. MP061 Inspiron E1705
    CPU
    2.00 gigahertz Intel Core 2 Duo 64 kilobyte primary memory
    Motherboard
    Board: Dell Inc. 0YD479 Bus Clock: 166 megahertz
    Memory
    2046 Megabytes Usable Installed Memory
    Graphics Card(s)
    ATI Mobility Radeon X1400 (Microsoft Corporation - WDDM) [Di
    Sound Card
    SigmaTel High Definition Audio CODEC
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Generic PnP Monitor (17.2"vis)
    Screen Resolution
    1920 x 1200 pixels
    Hard Drives
    Hitachi HTS541616J9SA00 [Hard drive] (160.04 GB) -- drive 0, s/n SB2411SJGLLRMB, rev SB4OC74P, SMART Status: Healthy
    Case
    Chassis Serial Number: 5YK95C1
    Keyboard
    Standard PS/2 Keyboard
    Mouse
    Logitech HID-compliant Cordless Mouse
    Internet Speed
    1958 Kbps download ; 754.8 Kbps upload
    Other Info
    Optiarc DVD+-RW AD-5540A ATA Device [CD-ROM drive]

    Dell AIO Printer A940

    Conexant HDA D110 MDC V.92 Modem

    6TO4 Adapter
    Broadcom 440x 10/100 Integrated Controller
    Broadcom 802.11n Network Adapter
    Microsoft ISATAP Adapter
    Teredo Tunneling Pseudo-Interface

    Router Linksys / WRT54G -01
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