Vista Safe Mode only question.

Crumbley · Dec 26, 2010

I have a rather sick Lenovo R61 running Vista Business 32 SP1.

It will only boot in restricted mode.

When a normal start up is run, it shows the moving bar whilst loading, then everything goes dead.

All lights out even with the power cord plugged in.

The only way to get the power light lit is to unplug the power cord and plug it back in again.

I have unflagged all the entries in the start up which leave only Vista drivers to load.

This means that the failure to boot normally is one of the Vista drivers etc. which restricted mode does not load, but which normal boot does.

The last file loaded in the NTBTLOG.TXT is the MONITOR.SYS

I am trying to fire up the missing Vista drivers etc. one by one in safe mode.

Am I investigating this the correct way, and if so, how do I do it?

Help appreciated.

Regards,

Crumbley.

richc46 · Dec 26, 2010

Welcome
Give clean boot a try, if it works we will have a better lead.
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/929135
We may be able to indetify the process that is causing the problem
If this is what you mean by restricted mode post back

If that does not work it is indeed a driver.
Post back if clean boot does not work

Go to device manager and look for any yellow markers, showing bad drivers

http://www.vistax64.com/tutorials/88236-repair-install-vista.html?filter[11]=Performance Maintenance

You may be able to correct the problem with a repair install

See if you can do an SFC check in safe mode
http://www.vistax64.com/tutorials/123496-safe-mode.html

http://www.vistax64.com/tutorials/66978-system-files-sfc-command.html

When you press f-8 and are in safe mode
See if you can go into System Restore
That should fix the problem
http://www.vistax64.com/tutorials/76905-system-restore-how.html

I am not sure what you mean by restricted mode. It may be either safe mode or clean boot.

Lorien · Dec 26, 2010

Hi Crumbley,

Welcome to Vista Forums!

Richard has provided a number of good options, many of which are duplicated here. We were responding at the same time, but he's faster than I am. Take a look at both as they do differ a bit and I would certainly do any that we both suggested and then decide on which of the others you want to try - it possibly wouldn't hurt to consider all of them, though you may need to adjust the order as some are more drastic than others and should probably be moved to the end once all others have failed.

Try doing a clean boot http://support.microsoft.com/kb/929135. If the problem goes away then it's just a matter of tracking down the culprit causing the problem. Follow the procedures in the article. Once found, delete, remove, deactivate, or uninstall it. Once done be sure to reset Vista back to normal status as explained in the procedures. If the problem occurs in clean mode then just restore the system to normal status and reboot - this solution is not going to work.

If that doesn't work, you may also want to try the Driver Verifier Manager to see if you can identify the driver or device responsible (assuming that is the cause): http://support.microsoft.com/kb/244617. You may be having troubles with your device drivers, firmware, and/or software. Go to Device Manager by going to start / search box and type device manager and enter and then double-click on the program icon that appears. Check each device for a red x, yellow ! or white ?. These identify devices with problems (probably drivers, but also conflicts or something else). Click on each for further details and troubleshooting tips. If you need to get drivers, do so from the computer vendor or device manufacturer (NOT from Microsoft Updates). Proceed as follows to get the drivers: http://pcsupport.about.com/od/driverssupport/ht/driverdlmfgr.htm. Once you have the drivers, you can install them through Device Manager as follows: http://www.vistax64.com/tutorials/193584-device-manager-install-driver.html.

If it is a defective driver and you do activate it in safe mode and the system crashes, then I'm not quite sure how you will be able to regain access since that driver may now stop you from using safe mode as well and while you may have identified the culprit, how are you going to access the system to repair the problem? That's my concern with your approach as opposed to a clean boot which does essentially the same thing but leaves safe mode alone.

Do you know when this problem began? Try a System Restore to a point in time BEFORE the problem began. Here's the procedure: http://www.vistax64.com/tutorials/76905-system-restore-how.html. Be sure to check the box to show more than 5 days of restore points. If the first attempt fails, then try an earlier point or two. NOTE: You will have to re-install any software and updates you installed between now and the restore point, but you can use Windows Update for the updates. Use the recovery disk if the system prompt doesn’t work. The recovery disk works a bit different from the above procedures but if you follow the prompts from the System Restore menu option with the above information you should be able to restore with no problems.

If the System Restore doesn't work, do a Startup Repair by booting to the genuine Windows Vista Installation Disk (or one you can borrow from ANYONE) or from a Recovery Disk with recovery options included on it. Here's the procedure: http://www.vistax64.com/tutorials/91467-startup-repair.html. To boot to the CD you may need to change the BIOS to make the CD-drive first in the boot sequence. To do that, wait for the screen that tells you the F key to push to access the boot menu or boot setup. Push it quickly. Make the changes, save your work, and exit. Put the CD in the drive and reboot. When prompted, push any key to boot from the CD.

If you don't have either disk, you can make a bootable Recovery Disk using http://neosmart.net/blog/2008/windows-vista-recovery-disc-download/ along with burning software like: http://www.snapfiles.com/get/active-isoburner.html and, of course, a blank CD (perhaps made on a different computer or perhaps in safe mode with networking if that is working).

If that doesn't work, try to boot into safe mode (repeatedly click the F8 key while booting and go to safe mode with networking – or do so from the command prompt on the disk). Then let's check some of your system files:

Go to Start / All Programs / Accessories / Command prompt and right click on command prompt and click run as Administrator (you can skip this step if using the disk).

If using the disk, cd to C:\Windows\System32. Type sfc /scannow and enter and let it run. It will scan and try to fix some of your system files. Hopefully it will complete with no corruption it could not repair (if there is such corruption post back here or try to analyze it to find the problem file(s) using http://support.microsoft.com/kb/928228. Try to attach the report (you may need to copy it to your desktop before it will permit you to attach it) here so we can see if they can be repaired with good copies from the installation disk (unless there are too many).

While in Command Prompt, type chkdsk /f /r and enter and let it run. It will want to schedule itself to run at the next restart. Answer yes and then reboot to run the program. It will scan and try to fix any corruption or bad sectors on your hard drive and mostly remove that as a potential cause.

If that doesn't work, then please post any error messages from the Event Viewer concerning startup (Start / Control Panel / Administrative Tools / Event Viewer). Here's how to use Event Viewer: http://www.petri.co.il/vista-event-viewer.htm. Look in the System section.

You may be infected with malware. Try to run anti-malware programs (in safe mode with networking if necessary). To fix this problem (if it is a problem) download, install, and run the following two programs: http://www.malwarebytes.org/mbam.php and http://www.safer-networking.org/en/index.html. You may also want to try the new, free Microsoft Security Essentials http://www.softpedia.com/progDownload/Microsoft-Security-Essentials-Download-131683.html (with the caveat that only ONE AV program can be installed and running on your system at any one time). Use removal tools when appropriate http://www.raymond.cc/blog/archives/2009/05/05/comprehensive-list-of-uninstallers-or-removal-tools-for-antivirus-software/. You may also want to try the free Avira at: http://www.free-av.com/ and Avast at: http://www.avast.com/index. Reboot after completing all the scans. You may also want to try the free OneCare at http://onecare.live.com/site/en-us/center/whatsnew.htm and let it run all the options (except the registry cleaner) because that’s good maintenance (it will take some time to complete but can be done in the background).

Download memtest86 and test your RAM
www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/105647-ram-test-memtest86.html

Test your Hard Drive using HD Diagnostic or Hard Drive Diagnostics Tools and Utilities (Storage) - TACKtech Corp.

At this point, let's stop and assess where we are and what we know. Post all the requested results (attached files or copies or screen shots) and answer any questions posed above and provide any details or additional information you think might help. Then we'll see where to go from there.

I hope this helps.

Good luck!

Crumbley · Dec 26, 2010

Thank you for your prompt reply Richard.

I have used the rescue and recovery disks to roll Vista back to the previous restore point, done a repair Visa from a system CD which performed CHKDSK several times.

The CHKDSK in the repair Vista did initially correct some errors but now does a clean run.

Every time I do boot it is from a shut down state.

As I said before, I have eliminated all non Vista entries in the start up.

Is this what you mean by a clean boot?

What I mean by a normal boot is to press the on button with no further manual intervention.

What I mean by restricted mode is, press the on button, then F8 to get a list of start up options, select the "restricted start up with networking" option with no further manual intervention.

Does this help?

Regards,

Crumbley.

richc46 · Dec 26, 2010

Read my article on clean boot. Then you will know if that is what you did.
I have been adding to my post as I thought of things read it again. I think we can nail this thing
My best suggestion is the systme restore. If you can use it, I think problem solved.

Your restriced mode is actually my safe mode. Try the clean boot, if that works we nailed this problem.So I think that you did not try clean boot (that is not your restricted mode)

Lorien · Dec 26, 2010

I agree with Richard about a clean boot being the first choice. I too have edited my original post. While I suspect clean boot will find and resolve the problem, there are many other options suggested by both of us that you can try if that doesn't work. I feel certain this issue can be identified and resolved without resorting to anything drastic.

Good luck!

Crumbley · Dec 26, 2010

Thank you Lorien,

I will work through your excellent post and get back to you as I have done so.

Restricted state won't even run a printer so I will have to do some equipment moving and installing before I start to read it.

I'll be back,

Regards,

Crumbley.

richc46 · Dec 26, 2010

Give that system restore a shot. It has helped many.

Lorien · Dec 26, 2010

I also agree with Richard that System Restore should be one of the first options you try if a clean boot did not work. These specific options we're discussing now were included in both of our original posts - it's just a matter of which is best to try first. We may differ slightly there, but not by much (and if you try something different in between, it probably won't hurt). Both are good lists. If you use either or both, I'm certain the issue will shortly be resolved.

richc46 · Dec 26, 2010

You have been given the best suggestions that each of us can offer. Use your judgement, since it is your computer, and do what is best for you.

Crumbley · Dec 26, 2010

Lorien and Richc46,

Problem still occurs with selective start up with only Microsoft services enabled.

I'll continue in the morning.

Thank you both for your help.

Regards,

Crumbley.

richc46 · Dec 26, 2010

Enable boot log
How To Enable Boot Logging For Fixing Startup Problems in Windows
This has helped many with your problem. Not so much here but in our Seven Forums.

Lorien · Dec 26, 2010

In addition to the above log which may help us diagnose the problem, we focused mainly on some of our first and favorite choices in the initial lists we provided after posting them - now it's time to try some of the others to see if they work where what we considered most likely didn't (that's why we included the others because the top choices don't always work).

Good luck!

Crumbley · Dec 27, 2010

Lorien and Richc46,

Disapointing day.

Working down the list, I skipped the VERIFIER.EXE and went straight on to the CHKDSK/F/R

This told me that "Windows is clean".

Start up repair told me that the system volume is corrupt but then said that it had now got zero errors.

Every time I try to boot up it runs a scheduled CHKDSK which has a two hour run.

Both the normal boot and the restricted boots now cause the computer to crash to a no lights state and rquire the power cord to be pulled out and reinserted for it to recognise power.

This means that I have no way to reset MSCONFIG because it cannot get that far.

Could both the failure to boot and the power cord problem actually be a hardware fault not a software fault?

I am thinking of changing the hard disk for a spare. Formatting it and installing Vista.

Comments welcome.

Regards,

Crumbley.

richc46 · Dec 27, 2010

I have several tests for hardware, if you want to go that route. Start with hard drive.
Test Hard Drive www.carrona.org/hddiag.html or this test http://www.tacktech.com/display.cfm?ttid=287

Hard drive does not seem like a power problem, but its one of the easier tests.

Describe the beeps when you boot
How many
long, short etc.

Crumbley · Dec 27, 2010

Richc46,

It doesn't beep.

Restricted boot with networking does't even load the audio services.

The horisontal moving bar which Windows displays when booting background services is a sort of indicator.

The bar goes across some 30 times on a normal boot before the all lights out crash.

I think that the first thing I do with a new windows machine is to disable the Windows sound.

Does this help?

Regards,

Crumbley.

richc46 · Dec 27, 2010

I dont think that disabling the sound will have much of an affect
If you want to test hardware let me know. I probably have a test for it.

Lorien · Dec 27, 2010

Hi Crumbley,

No beeps can mean that BIOS is detecting no problems or that your sound isn't working. I suggest you try the hard drive tests Richard recommended and see where that leads. If all is well there, post back and we'll try some other hardware and/or software tests and procedures to try to isolate the problem - but we have to start somewhere and the hard drive tests are logical starting points (assuming you want to continue to troubleshoot this anymore and haven't already decided on the course of action you posted).

Let us know if we can help, or let us know the results of the hard drive tests, and also let us know how things go (either way). We can help you with the installation as well if necessary should you go that route.

Good luck and best wishes!

Crumbley · Dec 28, 2010

Thank you Lorien,

Given that I can't get Vista to boot up either in normal or the various flavours of restricted mode, I think that a new Vista intallation on a replacement hard drive may be a start.

If I can't get Vista working, I can't run any programs to find hardware errors - unless you know different.

If I can get Vista running then it is not a disk error.

I've run the recovery memory program and it shoes no errors. CHKDSK doesn't seem to find any valid disk errors.

The power problem may be a mother board hardware fault totally divorced from the Vista problem.

If I can get Vista workiing I will follow up on the hardware test program angle.

Regards,

Crumbley.

Crumbley · Dec 28, 2010

It's pause for thought time.

Replacing the hard drive has come to a stop.

The R61 has a Sata disk and my "spare" disks are IDE. Different pins.

Vista won't install on a USB disk drive and I don't want to load Vista from scratch untill I am certain that I have all the data off it.

My back up is as at a couple of weeks before the failure.

Recovery CD's give the option to backup files to a USB disk, which I have done, but I always like to have a plan A and a Plan B.

Perhaps this paranoia stems from having to help try to resurect all the parcel transactions data for Northern Ireland where all the backup tapes were blank and the live system had failed. The tape software reported that each backup had completed sucessfuly.

This was many years ago, but even now I don't trust backups untill I prove that I can restore it somewhere else.

I need to have the use of another laptop to progress.

I can't use the one that I am using to type this - it's my wife's and she won't let me mess with it!

Given the state of the R61, I don't blame her!

I'll come back with any progress.

Regards,

Crumbley.

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