nVidia 8700/8800/9600/9800 chips are failing across the board

[rive0108]

Nvidia losing money over defective GPUs

by Justin Mann on August 13, 2008, 12:00 PM

Nvidia’s recent struggles with GPU manufacturing are definitely taking its toll on the company. As a result of manufacturing defects and the inevitable fallout from it, it seems that Nvidia has gone from enjoying a few beautiful years on top to actually losing money recently. In particular, Nvidia saw a decrease in revenue for the second quarter of this year, resulting in a financial loss for the company.

In total, they lost over $120 million, and recent cuts in sales haven’t helped them out either. They outright admitted that they underestimated AMD, but nobody can really blame them for that.

Yesterday, it was speculated that there were manufacturing defects in the G92 and G94 chipsets, on top of the already known bad parts in the G84 and G86 series. Nvidia may have tried to avoid blame here and there, but ultimately it is coming down on them and they have been stuck with warranty replacements galore. Even if the newer chipsets are fine, it doesn't do anything to remedy the mass amounts of defective ones already sold.







Nvidia G92s and G94 reportedly failing

Desktop boards this time

By Charlie Demerjian: Tuesday, 12 August 2008, 9:35 AM

NVIDIA IS IN DEEP trouble over the defective parts problem, and from what we're being told, this is only the tip of the iceberg. NV still insists on stonewalling and spinning because the cost of owning up to the problem could very well sink the company.
If you haven't been following the story, the short version, up till now, is that all G84 and G86 chips are bad. Nvidia is blaming everyone under the sun, but denying they have any hand in the failures. While this may sound plausible, technical analyses by people intimately involved in the requisite semiconductor technologies tell The INQ that it is a bunch of bull: NV simply screwed up. Badly. If it was a problem with the suppliers, NV would not be paying out more than the chip cost, much less gagging OEMs: it would simply be passed along.
In any case, the official story is that there was a small batch of parts given only to HP that went bad. That was comprehensively proved wrong when Dell, Apple, Asus, Lenovo and everyone else under the sun also had problems. NV AR recalled the parts and recanted the story about it only being an EOL test run. Bad fibbers, no cookie. They still stuck to the story about it being only laptop parts, and that it was under control.
If you think it is under control now, the following is part of an email sent Monday by a very tech-savvy reader. "We just got our first casualty from the Nvidia mobile graphics [expletive deleted]. Laptop used by one of our senior engineers started acting up this past weekend. Won't boot except in SAFE mode. Called Dell, they tried a few things, gave up, stated it was the graphics module, and said that because they were SO swamped dealing with that issue, they were just going to send a completely new laptop!"
There are two messages here which have echoes in earlier emails received over the past few weeks. First is that Dell is replacing full laptops over this, contrary to what they claim (read the comments here and here for more). The second is that the small 'under control' problem is far from that. If they had a handle on it, they would not be so far behind and drowning in backorders. Anyone want to bet Dell isn't going to get stuck with the bill here?
To make matters more laughable, the fix that NV is forcing on Dell, HP and everyone else does not fix the problem, it simply makes it less likely to occur during the warranty period. With HP now offering an extended warranty period, and Dell looking likely to do the same, this will only multiply the cost. Add in the fact that Nvidia is sending out defective parts as replacements (there are no good ones), and you have a recipe for a long and expensive tale.
That is where we stand now - NV is simply stonewalling everyone and the costs are adding up. How adult of them. The question of why still remains though, and with another little tidbit of information, it becomes quite clear. There was a digitimes article on July 25, here if you are a subscriber, that said: "Due to Nvidia not clearly explaining the details of the faults reported in its notebook GPUs, some channel vendors have demanded graphics card makers issue a recall for desktop-based discrete graphics cards using the same GPU core, according to sources at graphics card makers."
Reading that, it sounds a mite odd: why would Nvidia keep the partners in the dark like that? They have to be told what the real story is for business reasons, right? When you see stories like these, it is very likely that they are not what they seem, and that the story is simply a nice face-saving Asian 'hello' applied with a backhand.
A little digging revealed what this, and more, is all about, and it's far uglier than just the 'notebook' version. It seems that four board partners are seeing G92 and G94 chips going bad in the field at high rates. If you know what failures look like statistically, they follow a Poisson distribution, aka a bell curve. The failures start out small, and ramp up quickly - very quickly. If you know what you are looking for, you can catch the signs early on. From the sound of the backchannel grumblings, the failures have been flagged already, and NV isn't playing nice with their partners.
Why wouldn't they? Well, the G92 chip is used in the 8800GT, 8800GTS, 8800GS, several mobile flavours of 8800, most of the 9800 suffixes, and a few 9600 variants just to confuse buyers. The G94 is basically only the 9600GT. Basically we are told all G92 and G94 variants are susceptible to the same problem - basically they are all defective. Any guesses as to how much this is going to cost?
From the look of it, all G8x variants other than the G80, and all G9x variants are defective, but we have only been able to get people to comment directly on the G84, G86, G92 and G94, and all variants thereof. Since Nvidia is not acknowledging the obvious G84 and G86 problems, don't look for much word on this new set either - if they can bury it, it will drop their costs.
In the end, what it comes down to is that the problem is far bigger than they are admitting, and crosses generational lines, process lines, and OEM lines. Nvidia is quick to point the finger at everyone but themselves, but after a while, the facts strain those cover stories well past breaking point. There is a common engineering failure here - this problem is far too widespread for it to be anything else. The stonewalling, denials and partner gagging is simply a last-ditch attempt at wallet covering.
With OEMs extending warranties, Nvidia is going to have to cover a lot of laptops for a long time. Desktop boards are going bad as well now, contrary to the statements of Nvidia PR and AR, and the hole keeps getting deeper and deeper. I wonder if they can ever come clean and survive.

[WildEagle]

I tried Nvidia, but they just weren't as good as ATI. My biggest regret, was that when I came back to Intel, that I didn't keep my two X1800's that I had, bought the 975XBX2, 4GB's of DDR2 800 memory, my Core 2 Duo E6600 last year and done.

I had a lot of trouble with the Nvidia chipset motherboard I had towards last, and the drivers for the two 640MB 8800GTS'S that I had, and this is why I bailed out of Nvidia in March.

I believe it that Nvidia has a problem with defective video chips right now.

[xguntherc]

Well both my 8800's worked fine, my 8600 worked fine, and now my 260 works fine.

I know they are having a problem with defective chips. but your title is a little off. the 8800/9600/9800 series are all for the most part Great cards.

It's the MOBILE chips that are Failing across the board. the 8400GS, and the 8700GS.. I've NEVER seen a 8700.. lol, thats cuz it's only in Laptops.

and the reason these are failing, is not because the chips suck, it's because they are not getting Sufficient cooling.. I'm not saying it's the laptop MFG's fault, but it's not all Nvidia's. They both need to work harder, Communicate, and make sure there items will work together, before someone buys this cool new Skinny laptop that barely fits a videocard. then he games on it all night and it gets over 100C in there, yes the chips are going to start melting.

I'm not saying Nvidia has no problems. cuz they very much do right now, with these cards, and some Mobo's. but it's not all there fault. and in the Desktop area, the GFX card area is pretty sound and solid IMO.

Just my $0.02

[WildEagle]

The newer 8800's like the 8800GT and the 512MB 8800GT are among those that are failing as they use the G92 variant of the GeForce 8000 chip. I had two 640MB 8800GTS cards, and they never failed once due to heat, it was the driver problems that prompted me to bail out in March.

I just hope Nvidia can get these problems straightened out, cause if they don't they will most likely fall so far in to the hole, that somebody will buy them out, lock, stock and barrel.

[Fumz]

I was wondering why the article looked eerily familiar... word for word familiar...

G92 and G94 failing? FUD or Fact?

[skunksmash]

  Quote: Originally Posted by Fumz

I was wondering why the article looked eerily familiar... word for word familiar...

G92 and G94 failing? FUD or Fact?

lol.......

i cant say i have heard about that many 8800s being RMA'd maybe a few DOAs
but the 8800 is the most widely used card on the forums..
if it was a real problem i think we would have had more horror stories...

[Element]

Quote:

lol.......

i cant say i have heard about that many 8800s being RMA'd maybe a few DOAs
but the 8800 is the most widely used card on the forums..
if it was a real problem i think we would have had more horror stories...

I can agree here I have an 8800GT and it performs flawlessly and I have been using Nvida for a while ever since ATi started using substandard fan assembly parts for their cards(I had 3 ATi cards all fail due to bad fans and bearings in those fans) and I am religious about keeping my components dust free.

My wifes computer a little older than mine uses a 7800GS OC and it again performs perfectly. So for me theres really no reason to get all hot and bothered over this kind of report until it has some effect on me personally.

[Dwarf]

This is nothing new. When chip dies are created (and I am talking about CPUs as well as GPUs from Intel, AMD, NVidia and other manufacturers), some will work correctly as intended, others will fail to work at the intended speed but will work at a reduced speed, and others will not work at all. At the start of production of a new chip, the number of chips that do not work at all may be as high as 10% and those that do work as intended may be as low as 20%, leaving the remainder which do work, albeit at a lower speed. As the production cycle progresses, the quality of chip production increases and the number of chips that do not work at all falls dramatically. In addition, the number of chips produced that can run at the intended speed rises. Not all of these chips will be marketed as such, and some will actually be marketed as a lower range chip. This explains why some chips are good overclockers - they are actually higher range chips sold as a lower range model. Despite careful selection and testing, it is possible for defective chips to make their way to the consumer where they will work for a period of time and then fail. Unfortunately, it is impossible to say whether a chip that has passed testing will remain in working order or will, at some point in the future, fail for some reason or other. The real enemy of chips is HEAT, therefore it is essential to ensure that heatsinks and fans of the correct ratings are correctly installed and maintained to minimise its effects.
Dwarf

[WildEagle]

I'm starting to smell a rat now. A website has revealed that The Inquirer has a habit of stirring up trouble like this. It was stupid for me to buy in to this lock stock and barrel.

If there was truly all of these problems, cards like the 8800GTX would be failing like mad now.

[HexManiac]

  Quote: Originally Posted by WildEagle

I'm starting to smell a rat now. A website has revealed that The Inquirer has a habit of stirring up trouble like this. It was stupid for me to buy in to this lock stock and barrel.

If there was truly all of these problems, cards like the 8800GTX would be failing like mad now.

Actually the articles say the G80 (8800GTX, old 8800GTS 640, 320) is unaffected by these manufacturing defects. You are right to question the validity of the articles however, noting the sources. Some Internet 'news' sites will take a story with a grain of truth in it and embellish it to gain some 'hits' on their site. Mo' hits, mo' cash. And it's all about the cash.