Is Vista the "begining of the end" for MS?

[tenchidbz]

With such an un-populer OS as MS Vista is now, could this be a forshadowing of what to come for the giant? Please respond on what you think!

 

[larryk]

Doubtful. Frankly, I prefer Mac, but I am forced to run Windows if I want to interact (with reasonable ease) with most of the world and play the game I like. Until there are apps that gain widespread acceptance on other platforms, MS will rule by default. I've heard about the end of MS every release since 3.11. Really, if WindowsME didn't kill the giant, what will?

 

[Grimace]

I fail to see how vista is so 'UN-POPULAR', it might not be full on hands on OS but its deffinately not unpopular.

And frankly as much as I hate microsoft, I have already gone back to windows XP on my laptop (was running linux).
And the current install of Vista I have on my main PC (the one I am using now) is running flawlessly.

So far to date the only real propblem and grudge I have against vista is with microsoft and their stoopid product activation and absolutely rubbish house customer service reps whom I fail to understand at the best of times.

Back to the point, Vista is def not the end for MS (wish it was). As mentioned in the post above, MS somehow faught through the release of multiple drink coasters labeled WindowsME... not a joke, I managed to round up 4 OEM cds and put little rubber feet on em and that was the best thing that ever came from that OS release.

Cheers
Anthony

P.S. blank cds work just aswell

 

[larryk]

I agree Grimace, I don't think I would consider Vista unpopular. Like most rev. 1 software it has it's problems and a good number of people are waiting for the bugs to be worked out (and rightfully so).

I don't personally hate MS (OK, maybe activation) but I don't think they are threatened enough by competition to worry about offering the best product they can. They simply rule by force at this point.

I tried Ubuntu at the behest of a friend, and sorry to say Linux hasn't improved much since I gave it a shot 10 years ago.

So for now, it's Vista (or XP if you prefer the archaic, er, mature).

 

[MaraST78]

Personally, I like Vista, can't say i love it, but i like it


What i don't like about M$ is the fact that they try to keep ppl in some sort of a software cage and generally trying to make money from everything. WMP is a good example. In my opinion, totally unusable piece of software. No subs, no AR correction, no internal Vorbis or AAC decode support, something which looks like a media library, but it's not, 'cos it indexes only the obvious formats etc. Yeah, ffdshow fixes most of that, but it shouldn't be needed. VLC rules.

No third party visual styles, driver signing in x64 just for money, 'cos even i can buy a licence to sign the code of someone else, just to be signed and functional in x64. (Someone do that for RivaTuner pls, Unwinder will be happy, it's 500$ for a year...)

The list goes on. Good for me is that almost everything can be configured for my taste, so no WMP, no IE, no Windows Mail, different VS etc.
XP was the same in this aspect with addition of it's uncapable firewall, Vista FW is doing it's job done well for me. (though config interface is not of the greatest...)

But most of this is probably just a matter of preference, some ppl may be fully satisfied with default way things are. I'm not, my fault

Activation is not much of a problem but....

in my case it is a bit painful. My OEM licence was first activated on a different mobo, mobo died about 14 days after activation, got myself new one, had to reinstall and automatic activation is not possible anymore. This is normal and is present in the same way in XP too. If I need to reinstall, i will always need to do a phone call. Sometimes it's really fun! They ask me, if i'm using my oem copy on more than 1 comp, or how does the original install media looks like etc. and i always speak with someone else, great fun I reinstalled Vista only 2 times. Once 'cos of the dead mobo and 2nd time 'cos i screwed it, well, almost intentionally But i had the same problem with XP activation after mobo change and i realy wanted to be a bit rude in the phone. Yeah, it can ruin your nerves...

Better don't change components for as long as possible

So Vista is really not the end of anything for M$. Ppl, don't underestimate M$'s marketing power, they had proven many times that it's not a good idea. It can be sad, but it's simply true. If u can't beat someone, buy him...

Best regards, MaraST78

 

[Dzomlija]

They simply rule by force at this point.

MS rules by force? Force? So either Darth Gates used a Jedi Mind Trick to make all of us support MS, or one of his appretentices put a gun to our heads. Wake up people. This is a free world we live. We all chose to use Microsoft, so who are we to complain when they got so big?

And as far as Windows ME is concerned, I've yet to see evidence of any kind that says ME was a failure. When I compare Windows 98 and Windows ME side-by-side, I consider ME to be the RTM version of Windows 98, with Windows 98 being Beta 1, and Windows 98SE being Beta 2.

98 was terrible.

Just a thought...

 

[larryk]

MS rules by force? Force? So either Darth Gates used a Jedi Mind Trick to make all of us support MS, or one of his appretentices put a gun to our heads. Wake up people. This is a free world we live. We all chose to use Microsoft, so who are we to complain when they got so big?

I'm not sure if you just choose sentences at random to comment on, or just don't understand the concept of a complete thought, but you've taken my statement out of context and then added silly and irrelevant conjecture.

My thought is that Microsoft does not have to compete as vigorously because of its market share. A well-developed response to that premise would be welcome, but evil Star Wars analogies of Bill Gates really don't fit. And when did I "…complain when they got so big"? [sic]

If you're going to come with phrases such as "wake up people," maybe you should first understand the position you are attacking. And frankly, my friend, your endorsement of WindowsME does little for your credibility.

 

[Dzomlija]

My apologies, but you do have to admit though that there are more people out there in general who get a kick out of bashing Microsoft simply because they are Microsoft.

MaraST78 says

they try to keep ppl in some sort of a software cage

larryk says

but I am forced to run Windows if I want to interact

I used a Star Wars and the gun-to-head analogy, because it's genrally what most MS Bashers seem to believe. Even you can't deny the fact that there are people out there who consider Bill Gates to be the devil. Many of them simply attack Microsoft because other are also doing it, and they don't want to be left out.

But isn't that the reality of this world? We encourage people to build their lives and make a success of life, and when they reach the top, we try and throw them off.

When I said "Don't complain about them getiing so big", I didn't reference you in particular. Rather, I was targeting the people who DO complain that may also be reading your posts.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and my assesments of Windows 98 and Windows ME are based on real-world experiences, which was proven over time. But this is not the time or place to be discussing those two antiquated systems, now is it?

And just to clear things up also, I've been using Microsoft products for close on 20 years now. Not because anybody forced me to, or because I've had no other choice. I use MS because I want to.

 

[The Sand]

I don't personally hate MS (OK, maybe activation)

I've heard activation mentioned twice - not favorably. I've read the debate on it but don't really get it... why is this such a bummer. Not trying to be bitchy - just curious...

Thanks,
Sandy

 

[larryk]

No worries...

If you look at some of my other posts, you will see that I am just as opposed to Microsoft bashing for the sake of Microsoft bashing. I agree that there are those who are unreasonably harsh on the company, most of which I believe is the product of simple envy.

My problem with your post was that you seemed to have sunk to the same level and became a Microsoft basher basher without substantive thought - and worse, quoting out of context.

I have been using many operating systems for quite a while as well. Some at work where I had no choice and some at home where I do. Obviously, I have chosen to use Vista, but the rest of my comment that you plucked out that began: "I am forced to run Windows if I want to interact" ends with "(with reasonable ease) with most of the world and play the game I like." So in a way, I am forced IF... to run Windows as my primary machine, that's all.

 

[larryk]

Sandy -

Personally, I am just anal about how my rig runs. So if I upgrade hardware/software, remove hardware/software, or mess around enough to cause problems in general, I will reload. Not every time something changes, but until I'm satisfied with its behavior. And growing up on Windows taught me the benefit of a fresh, clean install (mostly because of the dread registry). I don't like it when I "completely" uninstall something and when I reinstall it, it has all my settings and problems of the last install (this is one of the main reasons I prefer Mac, no registry). So, after a couple auto activations, I am forced to call someone in Bangladesh to get my system up. And to me, that's annoying.

 

[Grimace]

Sandy -

Personally, I am just anal about how my rig runs. So if I upgrade hardware/software, remove hardware/software, or mess around enough to cause problems in general, I will reload. Not every time something changes, but until I'm satisfied with its behavior. And growing up on Windows taught me the benefit of a fresh, clean install (mostly because of the dread registry). I don't like it when I "completely" uninstall something and when I reinstall it, it has all my settings and problems of the last install (this is one of the main reasons I prefer Mac, no registry). So, after a couple auto activations, I am forced to call someone in Bangladesh to get my system up. And to me, that's annoying.

I think we both born from the same strand of DNA dude
I reformat my PC all the time. Now I have reformatted vista about 10 times.

I am currently delving into my first attempt at SLI, and lets jus say Vista is not co-operating, I'll keep at it until i find otu the problem and the relevant fix then ill reformat and do it properly.

I think i am only just beginning to find the major flaws in vista because up until now (sli dramas) I was very impressed.

The only other big issue I had was the over 3gb of ram issue, which is a simple patch.

Cheers
Anthony

p.s. vista is not un-popular :D

 

[The Sand]

Sandy -

Personally, I am just anal about how my rig runs. So if I upgrade hardware/software, remove hardware/software, or mess around enough to cause problems in general, I will reload. Not every time something changes, but until I'm satisfied with its behavior. And growing up on Windows taught me the benefit of a fresh, clean install (mostly because of the dread registry). I don't like it when I "completely" uninstall something and when I reinstall it, it has all my settings and problems of the last install (this is one of the main reasons I prefer Mac, no registry). So, after a couple auto activations, I am forced to call someone in Bangladesh to get my system up. And to me, that's annoying.

Thanks for answering Larry... if it's yours you should be able to screw with it all day and night (activate - deactivate, shread it, next)...without calling anybody. I think that is what I didn't understand. It sounds like you only get so many "auto activations" and then it's a phone call. That would piddle anybody off. No wonder you are frustrated.

As for the guys in Bangladesh though... they couldn't be nicer (experienced tech help "Bangladesh caller" I know... it's pathetic - but what's a girl to do - it's better than the Geek Squad at Best Buy.) At least if you have to call and do it... they are probably indeed nice about it!

Thanks again for answering...
Sandy

 

[Grimace]

I have been spoken to in a rather rood manner more than once. But that is a different story.

The last time I had to reactivate was probably the best, I was able to hold a casual conversation, didn't feel like a robot, and the Ladie on the other end of the line actually had some form of conversational skills. I was even asked about the weather and she was much more alert as she also commented on how late it was for me to be calling (around midnight).

 

[The Sand]

I have been spoken to in a rather rood manner more than once. But that is a different story.

The last time I had to reactivate was probably the best, I was able to hold a casual conversation, didn't feel like a robot, and the Ladie on the other end of the line actually had some form of conversational skills. I was even asked about the weather and she was much more alert as she also commented on how late it was for me to be calling (around midnight).

Hi Grimace, Maybe they are nice to me because I'm paying them. I pay $69 (flat rate) for Microsoft tech help via phone conversation. People are always (well, not always, but usually) nice when you pay them for their time.

As for a reactivation call... that is too bad you have to do that at all. I'm surprised they can't do something about that - they should think of something. You shouldn't be "hindered" from doing what you want to your computer in ANY way... and you might be if you know you have to "call Microsoft" if you redo something on your computer.

Thanks for the feedback!

Sandy

 

[larryk]

I'll keep at it until i find otu the problem and the relevant fix then ill reformat and do it properly.

Precisely my approach. If things go wrong - my fault or not - I just can't live with it. I'm sure it's all psychosomatic, but it just bugs me. Enough of my personality flaws...

I haven't found that MS activation people are necessarily rude (for the most part), but it's a hassle - Windows and Office. First they want you to enter the 95-digit number into the phone automatic system that was already denied by the on-line automatic system, and then when you finally get through to a person, they ask you dumb questions that I could simply lie about if I were inclined to do so. I guess they think people who pirate software wouldn't have the conscience to lie about what they're doing. Silly to me...

 

[kelleyu]

It seems that Nvidia and AMD are having a hard time keeping up with the demand for DX10 GPUs.

TechConnect Magazine - Nvidia and AMD GPUs in tight supply

Since DX10 only works with Vista, its popularity must be increasing dramatically if people are willing to pay the premium for DX10 video cards.

Personally, I've been using Vista x64 since its release and I really like it, now that I have it figured out. It's not perfect, but then, neither is any other OS.

K.

 

[MaraST78]

My apologies, but you do have to admit though that there are more people out there in general who get a kick out of bashing Microsoft simply because they are Microsoft.

I used a Star Wars and the gun-to-head analogy, because it's genrally what most MS Bashers seem to believe. Even you can't deny the fact that there are people out there who consider Bill Gates to be the devil. Many of them simply attack Microsoft because other are also doing it, and they don't want to be left out.

Yes, there are, but not me. I'm complaining, because there are simply things i don't like about MS or their OS. Not because it's MS. I don't like e.g. many cons in Linux, but on the other hand i like the other pros it has.
I even did W2K Pro MCP exam, because i wanted to, i really wanted. And this is another personal experience how MS makes money from everything. You have to pay for the exam before it begins, doesn't matter if you succeed or not, pay first. I'm sick of it. The fact that someone wants to be MCP should be absolutely enough for MS, but no, they want money for it. Give me a break.

But isn't that the reality of this world? We encourage people to build their lives and make a success of life, and when they reach the top, we try and throw them off.

No it isn't. What is we encourage people? This "we" is also you. No one is encouraging anyone, or you for that matter, to do anything. It's about the ability not get so influenced by other means. Even by family. Many people have different meaning of "reaching the top" and they will never get thrown off by others, because these others don't see them as on the top. Even though they personally are.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and my assesments of Windows 98 and Windows ME are based on real-world experiences, which was proven over time. But this is not the time or place to be discussing those two antiquated systems, now is it?

You are right, it's not. These were just supposed to be bridges between DOS and W2K and not Operating Systems...

And just to clear things up also, I've been using Microsoft products for close on 20 years now. Not because anybody forced me to, or because I've had no other choice. I use MS because I want to.

And just to clear things up also, I've been using Microsoft products for almost 20 years now. Not because anybody forced me to, or because I've had no other choice. I have been using MS because I wanted to, but now i use it mainly because i'm forced to do so. And the ones to blame are developers of those applications i need, not MS...

Cheers.


P.S. Try to get rid of that addiction to Star Wars, it can help your posts not to have so "underage" feeling, thx.

 

[Dzomlija]

I have been using MS because I wanted to, but now i use it mainly because i'm forced to do so

I believe the point I tried to make was this: In what way are you forced to do so? And when I use the word "you", I do not mean you personally, but the IT Community in general.

The general consensus is that we are forced to use MS products, or because of Windows huge market share, products that only work on MS Operating Systems.

Some say they use Windows only because that what they need to play games online. Do they then mean that Mac cannot play online games? What about PS/2, PS/3, XBox 360 or Wii?

If you buy a pre-built PC from Dell, HP, Sahara, Mecer, Acer, or whoever, chances are that it's preloaded with Windows. It is the companies that provide this hardware that choose to install Windows, not Microsoft. But even then, consumers still purchase those machines, knowing that they have Windows on them. And then they complain about not having a choice.

In all my years, I could have purchased pre-built machines and used the operating system that the supplier chose for me. But instead, I custom order my components and built my own PC, and freely chose which operating system I wanted to use. The choice was mine.

And before I receive any flak about how not everyone has the knowledge to be able to do this, consider this analogy:

Consider grocery shopping. You have two companies, Checkers and Pick 'n Pay. You are looking for some coffee, and your favourite brand is Nescafe.

So you walk into the one store, and all they have is Koffiehuis, and they tell you thats all they will provide. The other store has Nescafe, Koffiehuis, Ricoffy, and many others, providing you with a choice.

Now, do you accept the first store's explanation and buy a brand you don't like, or do you go to the other one that gave you the choice. Do you blame the coffee manufactuer, or the store that only sells the one brand

This analogy does fall short in many regards, but I believe it does serve to highlight my point. Most people believe that Microsoft forces us to use their software, when in fact it is the hardware suppliers that are not giving us the choice.

Is it not our responsibility as consumers to choose a company that does give us the choice? The hardware manufacturers get away with what they do because for as long as there are people out there who accept it, they have no reason to alter their business strategies.

So if you don't want to buy a computer that comes pre-loaded with Windows, then go to a supplier that lets you choose. Or you can build your own PC and decide for yourself what you want. And if you don't know enough about computers to be able to do just that, then learn.

Only if we know what we are buying and how to make accurate comparisons between products, can we resolve this entire issue, and no one will ever be able to force us to do anything.

Everybody always has the choice. Just not everybody know it.