Blue Screen twice - Any ideas why?

[H2SO4]

Have some rep for that thoroughly excellent advice. Whichever org you used to do support for got their money's worth out of you.

 

[ArbiterAlan]

Thank you sir.

 

[pdsnickles]

Thanks H2 (I just noticed I did 245 instead of 254, DOH!)

PDSnickles - I've worked in technical support myself (Not for HP).
A few things that may help you:
- They will want to start troubleshooting right off the bat, it's what they're trained to do and it can take a minute to get them past that mode.
- If you stick to saying "The PC has logged multiple Machine Check Errors already and this indicates a hardware failure. I have not modified any factory hardware settings, and I am not running any stress testing software to cause this error and the machine needs to be replaced." (You haven't overclocked the system or installed any hardware tweaking software - If you have, that problem may be yours.)
- If they insist on continuing to troubleshoot ask to speak to a supervisor - The worst they can do is say no and you can hang up to try the next rep. Hopefully You'll get a rep that knows hardware failures on a new PC are not correctable over the phone (unless you've tweaked the system - then you should undo the changes) and they will setup a replacement for you, if not a supervisor will.
- If you are selecting prompts when you call in do not select the option for trouble with your system if they have an option for checking the status of a return, or a warrenty department - these departments may be more likely to set up a replacement for you right off the bat.
- Try not to get mad at the rep on the phone (yes even the really stupid ones), it will make them more resistant to your requests. They are just getting paid to do what they are doing, they are not the company you bought the PC from.
Good luck with them, I hope you don't have to spend too much longer on the phone with them.

Thanks for this.
I was beginning to think along the lines of calling sales today. I somehow thought that you HAD to go through tech support to get them to verify that the compu was bad, maybe that is erroneous thinking.

I did not tweak the system in any way.

Question: If they say "Did you try System Restore?" - which I believe is a stupid question because System Restore will NOT fix these MCE errors, right? - can I just say that I did, to please them? And they will never be able to know because I will be allowed to erase the entire drive with Secure Erasure techniques before I send it back, right?

My problem - and maybe this is erroneous thinking - is that when I call Sales or Warranty dept. for a new machine, aren't they going to want some verification of it not working properly? And how do I get that when their own tech support will not acknowledge it? I understand what H2 is saying and you understand it and it's in writing in various places that this IS a hardware problem. But I can't seem to make anyone admit to it.

 

[pdsnickles]

Let me get something out of the way first: I'm a private individual helping out on a web forum for the sheer personal enjoyment I derive from it. I can't give you insight into the inner workings of any company, nor legal advice, nor anything official along those lines. All I can do is to explain how I would react in the same situation, in the hope that it may help you in some way.

FACT: An MCE is a hardware error. Intel says so:

http://download.intel.com/design/processor/manuals/253668.pdf

"14.1 MACHINE-CHECK ARCHITECTURE
The Pentium 4, Intel Xeon, and P6 family processors implement a machine-check architecture that provides a mechanism for detecting and reporting hardware (machine) errors, such as: system bus errors, ECC errors, parity errors, cache errors, and TLB errors."
​

The machine in question registered multiple MCEs during its first month of operation. The observation that it appears to work normally most of the time is irrelevant - it was purchased with the expectation that its hardware would be 100% functional, not 99%.

Nothing has been repaired at a hardware level since the MCE events, and therefore there is nothing to stop the same underlying hardware error condition from manifesting itself in the future, either as further MCE instances, or in more subtle ways which might lead to data integrity problems while being difficult to detect.

The warranty covers the machine against hardware defects during a certain period from the time of purchase, and this machine has already logged several hardware error (MCE) events during the warranty period. I therefore feel entirely justified in asking for the hardware to be replaced so that I can get on with my work and put this massive and troublesome invonvenience behind me.

==================

If you're having trouble verbally convincing the friendly folks at the store where you bought the machine to give you a replacement, try perhaps writing something along the lines above. It's under warranty and you've got a right to a product that works without defects. You're not the one on thin ice here. They are.

Thanks for hanging in there with me H2S04. I feel like I'm being a total pain in the ass at this point.

But I think after that horrible experience yesterday I am totally commited to returning this thing and I will keep trying until I succeed.

Though it may not be completely logical, at this point my main thrust is to return the machine at Best Buy so that I can get a NON-HP machine. I have a bad taste in my mouth from their thoroughly horrible tech support both online and on phone, and I just don't want to have an HP machine anymore.

This requires that I convince Best Buy to bypass their RIGID 14 day return policy (I've already called their 800# and been told "No", now I have to focus on the local store; but I bought it via net and then pick-up at store, so they aren't likely to be lenient with me at the store, I don't think, as they might otherwise be had I just bought it there via a salesman.).

My next option is to call Chase whose card I used to buy it, and try to get them to intervene for me.

My goal is to upgrade to a non-HP computer with a non-AMD chip. This is the first non-Intel chip I've ever owned, and, well, again, it may not be logical, because anything CAN go bad, so it's not necessarily HP's nor AMD's fault, but I don't want a computer with either company's hardware or tech support at this point.

Thanks much for hanging in there with me. Hopefully my next post will be the last.

Also I realize this thread has gone a bit off-topic, but hopefully the mods will allow it because I'm sure other people will have similar problems and my final post may be instructive to them as to what to do in a similarly bad situation sprouting from a blue screen or two. Thanks to all for advice and support.

 

[ArbiterAlan]

If you plan on getting a replacement or refund of any kind I would recommend not trashing the hard drive as that would make it no longer in original factory condition. I would use the system recovery process to put the initial software on the hard drive before you send it back though.
It may very well be true that you would have to get approval from a tekkie to process a return but they will tell you if that is the case. If they refuse to acknowledge the problem your only option at that point would be to contact your bank and have the charge reversed as you said.

 

[pdsnickles]

Thanks Arbiter. I did use system recovery to return it to original state, and the techies did approve it, thanks to all the info H2S04 gave me about the problem, which I dutifully copied and showed to them.

You can read about what happened in my thread titled "HP is screwing me around".
Thanks for all your help, H2S04, and you too Arbiter and everyone else for making this a great forum.

 

[H2SO4]

It's great to hear that they agreed to replace your machine. I read through your other thread and had a bit of a chuckle (which is OK, now that it's all good!). You write well.

If it's any consolation, I think you were lucky in an odd way. An MCE is a comparatively rare event, and many hardware malfunctions can remain undetected while periodically manifesting themselves in strange errors. At least your box went "BOOM - I've suffered an obvious hardware glitch and you really ought to investigate it", and within the warranty period too

I don't have any personal link to HP, so I'm not defending them out of shareholder instinct, but it's entirely possible that their techs you spoke to had never encountered an MCE before. Some large percentage of their calls probably involves customers who make no distinction between software and hardware, and their job is to explain that returning computers is not necessarily the right approach when Solitaire stops working.

What gets my goat is when techs make stuff up to sound knowledgeable. They were doing that to you, based on the snippet you quoted. In some ways, that's the difference between good and bad support - the backbone to say "I've never heard of this, but I recognise that it might be highly significant so please bear with me while I do some research or bring in a more senior colleague." Unfortunately, IT is full of people who'd rather try to bend a problem to fit their (limited) knowledge rather than learn a little bit more.

Good luck with your new machine!

 

[pdsnickles]

It's great to hear that they agreed to replace your machine. I read through your other thread and had a bit of a chuckle (which is OK, now that it's all good!). You write well.

If it's any consolation, I think you were lucky in an odd way. An MCE is a comparatively rare event, and many hardware malfunctions can remain undetected while periodically manifesting themselves in strange errors. At least your box went "BOOM - I've suffered an obvious hardware glitch and you really ought to investigate it", and within the warranty period too

I don't have any personal link to HP, so I'm not defending them out of shareholder instinct, but it's entirely possible that their techs you spoke to had never encountered an MCE before. Some large percentage of their calls probably involves customers who make no distinction between software and hardware, and their job is to explain that returning computers is not necessarily the right approach when Solitaire stops working.

What gets my goat is when techs make stuff up to sound knowledgeable. They were doing that to you, based on the snippet you quoted. In some ways, that's the difference between good and bad support - the backbone to say "I've never heard of this, but I recognise that it might be highly significant so please bear with me while I do some research or bring in a more senior colleague." Unfortunately, IT is full of people who'd rather try to bend a problem to fit their (limited) knowledge rather than learn a little bit more.

Good luck with your new machine!

Thanks H2... I was lucky I came to THIS forum and YOU diagnosed the problem for me; otherwise I'd have just kept the machine and not known. I posted on another forum and got no answers at all.

I see what you are saying about tech support. But I gave them the info on MCE and they DID look it up during my 3 and 1/2 hour (!?) online chat session with them, but they just refused to admit it was a hardware error in spite of the facts in front of them; the supervisor kept insisting it could be fixed with System Restore. That's what I find unacceptable.

And I also insisted on speaking with someone above the supe but he would not allow me (maybe there was no one there but he could have had someone else call me back the next day).

Also, let's not forget that the first techs I spoke with never called me back as they said they would to further investigate the matter, and I'm nearly positive I won't get this call back as I was told I would, either. (I will post here if I DO, and at least give them that, if they follow through.) But they said they'd call back in 4 days with a solution (?) and this is the 3rd day so if they haven't called by Monday then they are not doing what they said.)

No, I have to stick with my evaluation: HP has very poor tech support, and Indian tech support is not as good as U.S. tech support both in terms of us being able to understand each other and in terms of their knowledge. The latter statement is of course a generalization but it is based on a number of calls I've made to tech support people in India not just concerning computers but other issues as well. I stand by my theory that these 3rd World or Developing Nation countries tend to hire people based on their ability to speak English, not on their technical knowledge.

Anyway, it's all behind me now... except for the letters I am going to write to HP execs to let them know they have lost a customer for life due to outsourcing to incompetent tech support people.