Clean then Defrag OR Defrag then Clean

Glad that we could help.
 

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    Dell XPS420
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That's an excellent idea. I just remove them with the tools in properties but it always leaves the last one. Does turning it off remove that last one as well?

Yes. When you turn off SR it deallocates the space for shadow copies and deletes them all. Once my defrag is done I just hit Win-Pause key and click System Protection to reinstate it. I have a batch file to set the max space for use by shadow copy that I run right after reactivating it. Now and then I temporarily have large video files on my system drive. A restore point can be excessively bulky if it's backing up a couple of those.
 

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System One

  • Manufacturer/Model
    HP Pavilion m9515y
    CPU
    Phenom X4 9850
    Memory
    8 GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    Some Radeon Cheapie with 512 MB Ram
    Monitor(s) Displays
    CRT
    Screen Resolution
    1280x1024
    Hard Drives
    750 GB SATA 3G
    2 SIIG Superspeed docks w/WD Caviar Black Sata II or III
I use a variation of the above method, which is easier for me, when I want to delete. Actually I dont delete often, but yesterday I did. I use ccleaner to do the job for me.
 

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System One

  • Manufacturer/Model
    Dell XPS420
    Memory
    6 gig
    Graphics Card(s)
    ATI Radeon HD3650 256 MB
    Sound Card
    Intergrated 7.1 Channel Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dell SP2009W 20 inch Flat Panel w Webcam
    Hard Drives
    640 gb
    Cooling
    Fan
    Keyboard
    Dell USB
    Mouse
    Dell USB 4 button optical
    Other Info
    DSL provided by ATT
I use a variation of the above method, which is easier for me, when I want to delete. Actually I dont delete often, but yesterday I did. I use ccleaner to do the job for me.

Sometimes I'll use a .vbs script to make a restore point just so I can delete all the old ones in CCleaner. I try not to turn off SR unless I'm doing a defrag with all the options. Maybe one defrag out of 5. Most of the time I use the CCleaner technique as you do.
 

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System One

  • Manufacturer/Model
    HP Pavilion m9515y
    CPU
    Phenom X4 9850
    Memory
    8 GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    Some Radeon Cheapie with 512 MB Ram
    Monitor(s) Displays
    CRT
    Screen Resolution
    1280x1024
    Hard Drives
    750 GB SATA 3G
    2 SIIG Superspeed docks w/WD Caviar Black Sata II or III
Hi there,

I normally clean first, but i use a fully automatic defragger that goes to work as soon as fragmentation takes place, effectively preventing it from happening and means you don't have to worry about when to defrag.
 

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No good Jim
You should not defrag unless about 10% fragged. Too much defrag is hard on the drive.
You should clean first, why defrag something that will be removed?
 

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System One

  • Manufacturer/Model
    Dell XPS420
    Memory
    6 gig
    Graphics Card(s)
    ATI Radeon HD3650 256 MB
    Sound Card
    Intergrated 7.1 Channel Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dell SP2009W 20 inch Flat Panel w Webcam
    Hard Drives
    640 gb
    Cooling
    Fan
    Keyboard
    Dell USB
    Mouse
    Dell USB 4 button optical
    Other Info
    DSL provided by ATT
AFAIK, only a few defraggers (all commercial, not free) with the shadow copy compatible defrag mode can minimize the deletion of older system restore points. Even then, there is no 100% guarantee of saving all SRPs.:( The freeware defrag utilities don't have this function (to the best of my knowledge) and it can become an annoyance on vista/7.
 

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Note to self, make a new restore point after defragging
 

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System One

  • Manufacturer/Model
    Lenovo Thinkpad T400
    CPU
    Intel Mobile Core 2 Duo P8700 @ 2.53GHz
    Motherboard
    LENOVO 64734VM
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    2.00GB Single-Channel DDR3 @ 531MHz
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    Intel Mobile Intel 4 Series Express Chipset Family
    Sound Card
    Conexant 20561 SmartAudio HD
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    15 inch
    Screen Resolution
    1280 x 800
    Hard Drives
    1x 180GB Intel 530 series SSD
    1 x 120GB Hitachi 5400rmp
    1 x 650GB Western Digital Elements 5400rpm
    1x 1Tb Western Digital Elements 5400rpm
    Internet Speed
    Medium for New Zealand
    Other Info
    Weakest part of my computer is the graphics chipset.
    Only ever used a laptop.
    Also use USB Freeview TV Card
    Lenovo Docking Station
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    Other bits a pieces as needed
I use auslogics and have no System Restore problem
 

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System One

  • Manufacturer/Model
    Dell XPS420
    Memory
    6 gig
    Graphics Card(s)
    ATI Radeon HD3650 256 MB
    Sound Card
    Intergrated 7.1 Channel Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dell SP2009W 20 inch Flat Panel w Webcam
    Hard Drives
    640 gb
    Cooling
    Fan
    Keyboard
    Dell USB
    Mouse
    Dell USB 4 button optical
    Other Info
    DSL provided by ATT
Okay group ... --> defraggler , when it says something like 28%, that does not mean that your system has 28% or more files that need to be defragged. It means that it is still looking for files that might need to be defragged.

If you let it go to the 100%, I bet you will find possibly one or two files will be defragged.

I use Auslogics Disk Defrag. |MG| Auslogics Disk Defrag 3.1.10.165 Download
 

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System One

  • Manufacturer/Model
    Bruce ... somewhere in his 40's
    CPU
    Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU
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    INTEL/D975XBX2
    Memory
    4 GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    ATI Radeon HD 2600 Pro
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Samsung SyncMaster 914v
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    2/500GB each ... ST3500630AS ATA Device.
    One is not connected
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    Rocketfish 700 W
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    G.Skill Gigabyte Chassis
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    Standard PS/2 Keyboard
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    Microsoft PS/2 Mouse
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    DSL
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    ATI HDMI Audio
Hi there,

I normally clean first, but i use a fully automatic defragger that goes to work as soon as fragmentation takes place, effectively preventing it from happening and means you don't have to worry about when to defrag.

I tried a couple of those. If your usage pattern matches well with it then it may be for you. But the strategy seemed to me to be counterproductive. I want to have a defragged HD so that when I do stuff there's a minimum of work for the HD to do. If every time I change a file, create a file, or whatever, the defrag kicks in, now I'm just working the drive all the time. For me it would need to have configuration that could be fine tuned to avoid kicking in while I'm trying to work. I just never tried one that I liked. Then again, I never had $200 to drop on one so I tried either freebies or shareware trial versions.

Also one weakness of Windows is there seems to be no easy "idle detection" for the programmer. CPU idle is easy, but determining if the HD is idle is not so. In fact when I bought my HP AMD dual core with Vista pre SP1 I was in the middle of defragging with jkDefrag when the system defragger kicked in!! That's how i learned the Windows defrag was in the Task Scheduler enabled by default.

Like the guy said in Dr. Strangelove, if you have a Doomsday Machine(tm) it's not a deterrent unless you tell people about it!
 

My Computer

System One

  • Manufacturer/Model
    HP Pavilion m9515y
    CPU
    Phenom X4 9850
    Memory
    8 GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    Some Radeon Cheapie with 512 MB Ram
    Monitor(s) Displays
    CRT
    Screen Resolution
    1280x1024
    Hard Drives
    750 GB SATA 3G
    2 SIIG Superspeed docks w/WD Caviar Black Sata II or III
I actually work in the Tech Support section of Diskeeper Corporation and as such have come across the issue with defragmenting and VSS and well as the consideration that Richc46 brought up about 10% fragmentation or better. To shed some light on things as I've come to learn in my work here. First, as far as the VSS issue, since Shadow Copy employs a "copy-on-write" system it backs up all data believe to be "changed". With the default 4KB cluster size file movements can produce an increase in the snapshots, then adding defragmentation on top of that, the snapshots can really balloon. As Benjamin pointed out, there are defrag utilities out there that include VSS modes to address this problem though.

As for the point that richc46 originated, you actually right about that although I'd be hard pressed to suggest a specific percentage threshold. Most defragmenters do their best to achieve 0 fragments and although it's a worthy objective, some CPU can be thrown away on needless defragmentation. Diskeeper's program actually looks to only address fragmentation to the degree that performance is back at its peak, so you might say there is actually an "acceptable level" of fragmentation. Then as far as the idea of defragmenting being rough on the drive, reducing the number of read/write cycles is essentially the objective to reduce the wear and tear. Since both defragmenting and the normal reading from and writing to files produce disk activity, they both can produre some wear. When a file is left fragmented however, the read and write cycles will be increased and then multiplied by the frequency with which that file is accessed. That can produce more wear than the task of defragmenting it. Anyway, I just wanted to share my experience here. I hope that adds some helpful info.
 

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