Build or Buy?

[Butler]

I have been kicking around the idea of another PC build but I analyze everything and ask for more feedback than a pop up survey. My current desktop is a custom latest upgrade was about five years ago. I'll give you all some specs:
Pentium 4 2.53 Ghz
GeForce 5700 512mbn After Radeon 9700 decided it didnt like the mobo.
1 gig OCZ don't eve ask the timing i forgot that years ago
80GB HD
300GB HD
ASUS p4C800-e MOBO
Microsoft Windows XP service pack3

(I'm posting from my year old HPdv6775 laptop with Vista home Premium)

Now that your done laughing, she was pretty fast back in the day. But you can obviously tell I am not looking at new releases in the PC section.

I don't know if it is just because I have not built one in a while or what, but I have been thinking about it. I just don't play PC games like I used too. I still game but on 360 almost, well exclusively. The only games I am missing are the flight sims, and I am not hardcore just occasional flight simmer, and Some of the nice strategy games like World in Conflict. My laptop plays WIC but on the lowest settings so that's not the ideal.

But my PC use has really made a transition to more of a Power user type. So a nice multimedia type would get me by. I mean I'd love to run some Vista Ultimate 64 bit with 8 gigs of ram, stream music and videos all over the house and still have cmd.exe and powershell going.

I have had a interest in computer forensics and hacking incident response for a couple years so I mainly spend PC time with that kind of thing. i also tend to use my HP laptop a lot more than the desk top. I like the freedom to move around, or take it with me. 5 years ago it was actually cheaper to build custom most times than to buy. But now there are some really nice deals.

So after 9 pages of text what do you all think? If I go the new PC route with tax return, Should I buy a $1000 dollar high end multimedia/mid gamer type? build with the same budget? Or buy a monster laptop? I guess the main point I'm thinking about when I ask build vs. buy is, if I am only going to play the occasional game on PC is the possible price/custom parts worth the time for a build?

 

[roy69]

This is a hard one, you like to move around so a laptop sounds ideal.

The problem lies in the amount you have to spend, a Desktop build for $1000 will get you alot, or you can buy a Prebuilt one and upgrade just the bits you want.

There are some websites that you tell them want conponents you want and they will build it, sort of a design a PC online.

 

[Ayporos]

It IS, and always WILL be more cost efficient to build your own pc.

This guarantees you know what you're getting, what it is exactly that you are getting
and allows you to steer clear of components/component setups that have proven to have 'problems'.

However if you do value mobility a lot looking at a laptop might not be a bad idea.
There are a lot of good quality laptops available at the moment, but laptops aren't really my forte so I can't help you with that. I know everything about desktops but
when it comes to laptops I am completely lost.

Regarding sites where you can buy pre-built 'customised' rigs (like dell.com or alienware or w/e) those rigs are usually quite expensive in the price/quality department not to mention they FORCE you to buy package deals (ie software/hardware you might not want / already have available such as windows or a mice or keyboard or w/e) so I'd suggest staying away from such things too.

RTS's are usually quite playable on 'older' rigs (granted you have to sacrifice some graphics) but the latest RTS will still run on a pc like your old one while the latest FPS might not.
I personally don't play any flight sims but I know enough to know they tend to be
quite resource intensive.. so if you really want to be able to play those I'd suggest getting atleast a dual core with a decent gfx card.

I don't quite understand what you mean by 'power user'?
multimedia playback doesn't require much resources and a low-end pc as long as it has a HD-capable gfx card and +-2gb ram should be able to play any movie/audio you want it to.

In case you are referring to audio/video editing now THAT is a completely different story. That stuff EATS resources and WILL ask for seconds. This sort of work (as far as I know) actually relies more on your CPU than your GPU (unless it's CUDA-capable software or something similar) and if that is what you want to do I'd suggest getting a quadcore cpu with as much GHZ as you can. Intel CPU's are more suited to audio/video editing than AMD's and AMD's are better suited to gaming (intel has a more GHZ is better policy while AMD prefers a larger bussize which favors gaming)
Also if this is your thing and you know which programs you (want to) use, check out if they are CUDA capable. if they are I STRONGLY recommend getting an NVIDIA GPU because it would greatly increase your raw processing power.

If you are into hacking and brute forcing / password guessing obviously more CPU is needed. This sort of activity usually doesn't require much ram or high busspeeds or anything.. just RAW and PURE CPU processing power. In this case again I would suggest getting an Intel quadcore cpu with as much GHZ as you can (I assume your tools have quad-core support)

a 1000 dollar budget will get you a sufficient laptop, a good pre-build pc or an awesome home-built setup. (with quality rising from 1st to 3rd choice).

If you have any other questions feel free to e-mail me at:
[email protected]
and I'll be sure to try and help you in the best way I can

 

[Ratso]

Butler,

Until this past weekend I was running a rig very similar to yours which I built 5 years ago around the P4 2.53 cpu, MSI motherboard and ATI 9800 Pro vid card. No way I could run any of the latest (or even a year old) games on anything but the lowest settings. So..after doing all the research it was a no brainer that I could build a fairly powerful gaming rig much more cost efficiently than buying. Here’s what I have and so far it’s very stable.

Intel e8400 core duo cpu
Asus P5Q Pro mobo (first one shipped by Newegg was defective)
2 x 2gb of G. Skill DDR2 1066 ram
Seagate 320Gb hdd
Sapphire Radeon HD 4780 (well worth the extra money for this card!!)
Vista Home Prem 64 bit
Antec 500 watt psu
Litescribe dvd-rw drives
Antec 300 gaming case
Two extra 120mm fans

Total cost was under $900.00

The company I work for gets the Dell supplier discount, so I put together a rig close to the one above but with a lower end video card and even with discounts the cost was close to $1400.00.

Anyway..I am very glad I built vs. buying a desktop gaming rig.

 

[Butler]

Thanks for the answers so far guys. after posting this I went to bed thinking about it and admit I did sway a little more toward building. And my budget would actually be more, 1000 to 1500. So I know I can prob build a nice rig that can handle whatever I throw at it.

Laptops are laptops, they are great. This HP I bought last march with tax return was my first. If I go higher end (more powerful/gaming type laptop) Ill basically have to be plugged in every where.

And it is time for a new desktop. So Desktop build is edging ahead.

 

[Ayporos]

Considering the fact you already HAVE a laptop I would have to agree.

The laptop you have now might not be adequate for 'everything' but it atleast gives you enough freedom to do SOMETHING while on the move

 

[avgwarhawk]

Build it....bloatware sucks. My last one I had built with Vista 64 on it...nothing else. Best thing I ever did and will not go to off the shelf anymore.

 

[Ratso]

Build it....bloatware sucks. My last one I had built with Vista 64 on it...nothing else. Best thing I ever did and will not go to off the shelf anymore.

Absolutly!!!! In my "pre-building" days...I can't remember a store bought PC that lasted more than a year before the "bloatware" caused the machine to be worthless. Disable anything and it affects everything else. I build my P4 based rig in 2004 and it has run error free for five years with Win XP Pro and I've overclocked the cpu and radeon 9800. I'm stripping the games off it now and giving it to my wife to use for productivity stuff and email.

 

[thepizzaman]

hm... since you are going to build...... and you have 1000 to 1500
i would say....
get....
Phenom II 940 ($200-250)
Asus Motherboard... (depends on if you want quad crossfire or not or if you just want dual) (no more than $250)
8gigs Patriot Viper Memory (you can get pc6400 of this for about $20-30 per 4gigs at a 4-4-4-12 latency)
Coolermaster 932 Haf case ($150-180)
850 Ultra X3 PSU ($150)(best warranty by far, Lifetime and will replace even if its your fault)
at least 1tb of hardrive ($100)
at least a HD4870 ($200-300)
and Vista ($150-250) (whichever you prefer)
and that is my recommendation :D
(the highest total is $1540.... so there ya go)
:D

 

[SCSIraidGURU]

I like Kingston and Corsair RAM better than Patriot. They are more stable.

HAF chassis is awesome. My next build is starting with a:
HAF
Supermicro X8DAH+ board
pair of Intel X5550 Xeons
PC Power and Cooling customed wired 1200W power supply
24GB DDR3 triple channel ECC RAM, 12GB per CPU

 

[thepizzaman]

I like Kingston and Corsair RAM better than Patriot. They are more stable.

HAF chassis is awesome. My next build is starting with a:
HAF
Supermicro X8DAH+ board
pair of Intel X5550 Xeons
PC Power and Cooling customed wired 1200W power supply
24GB DDR3 triple channel ECC RAM, 12GB per CPU

hehe... i have had no problems with mine..... and i love it :D
but true the domonators are good

 

[Butler]

hm... since you are going to build...... and you have 1000 to 1500
i would say....
get....
Phenom II 940 ($200-250)
Asus Motherboard... (depends on if you want quad crossfire or not or if you just want dual) (no more than $250)
8gigs Patriot Viper Memory (you can get pc6400 of this for about $20-30 per 4gigs at a 4-4-4-12 latency)
Coolermaster 932 Haf case ($150-180)
850 Ultra X3 PSU ($150)(best warranty by far, Lifetime and will replace even if its your fault)
at least 1tb of hardrive ($100)
at least a HD4870 ($200-300)
and Vista ($150-250) (whichever you prefer)
and that is my recommendation :D
(the highest total is $1540.... so there ya go)
:D

O.K. great AMD system can I get someone to post an Intel based system, I also like ASUS boards but I am open to different brands.

 

[thepizzaman]

hm...... intelwise..... getting about the same execpt for the cpu.... is about a q6600 or a q6700 or maybe a xeon if you look in the right place........
and the phenom II is much faster than all of those

 

[SCSIraidGURU]

My Xeon benchmarks are amazing compared to i7s.

index

 

[Butler]

My Xeon benchmarks are amazing compared to i7s.

index

I checked out your site SCSIraidGURU, and that is nice! Can I get the price point on a system like that? No need to be exact if you don't want.

 

[thepizzaman]

My Xeon benchmarks are amazing compared to i7s.

index

but you have dual exons...... and that will cost a lot and the dual boards are not cheap......
and your 8 cores should be better than 4

 

[SCSIraidGURU]

My current setup
$500-$600 Supermicro board
$700 16GB RAM
$1000: pair of Intel E5430 Xeons
$600: 1000W PC Power and Cooling customed wired power supply
$1000: LSI Logic MegaRAID 8708EM2 SAS RAID controller and battery
$1000: 3 x Seagate Savvio 146GB 10K SAS drives
$600: 2 x Supermicro SAS RAID enclosures
$200: Noctua chassis fans

$440: Sapphire 4870x2

My new setup will be Intel X5550 1333 FSB Xeons with 24GB triple channel 1333 FSB RAM for 1:1 FSB performance instead of E5430 1333 FSB with DDR667 RAM for 1:2 performance. I will be using a X8DAH+ Supermicro board with a pair of Sapphire 4870x2 in ATI Crossfire. I am working on a PC Power and Cooling 1200W customed wired power supply spec sheet.

Photoshop CS4 x64 can run on 16GB of RAM and 4 cores. Light room 2.3 x64 can run on 4 cores. Vista and XP Pro can handle a pair of CPUs with 32 cores each. You need 1GB of RAM per core for best performance.

 

[Butler]

Awesome system, but it is way out of my price range. I guess I'll be building a gaming/multi whatever system.

Got to run some errands, when I get back I'll be doing some parts/price research.

 

[thepizzaman]

hm... since you are going to build...... and you have 1000 to 1500
i would say....
get....
Phenom II 940 ($200-250)
Asus Motherboard... (depends on if you want quad crossfire or not or if you just want dual) (no more than $250)
8gigs Patriot Viper Memory (you can get pc6400 of this for about $20-30 per 4gigs at a 4-4-4-12 latency)
Coolermaster 932 Haf case ($150-180)
850 Ultra X3 PSU ($150)(best warranty by far, Lifetime and will replace even if its your fault)
at least 1tb of hardrive ($100)
at least a HD4870 ($200-300)
and Vista ($150-250) (whichever you prefer)
and that is my recommendation :D
(the highest total is $1540.... so there ya go)
:D

as i said next to a i7 system this is about as good as it gets
oh and scsi in some cases a overclocked Phenom II can out preform your dual exons

 

[SCSIraidGURU]

Overclocking is not exactly stable. The 12MB cache on each Xeon does add performance. Vista can see all 12MB cache.

The memory bandwidth of the server board will out perform an i7 board. Each of the x16 PCIe slots are tied to one CPU. The triple channel performance of a server board is more robust than any workstation board. I rather have stable performance over overclocking. The new Nehalem Xeons are what the i7 could be. You don't see many accurate benchmarks for Xeons vs Phenom II.

Various sources have stated the specifications of processors in the Nehalem family:

• Two, four, or eight cores
  • 731 million transistors for the quad core variant
• 45 nm manufacturing process
• Integrated memory controller supporting two or three memory channels of DDR3 SDRAM or four FB-DIMM channels
• Integrated graphics processor (IGP) located off-die, but in the same CPU package[7]
• A new point-to-point processor interconnect, the Intel QuickPath Interconnect, replacing the legacy front side bus
  • Some Nehalem processors implement DMI instead of the FSB and do away with the motherboard northbridge altogether
• Simultaneous multithreading (SMT) by multiple cores and hyperthreading, which enables two threads per core. Simultaneous multithreading has not been present on a consumer desktop Intel processor since 2006 with the Pentium 4 and Pentium XE. Intel reintroduced SMT with their Atom Architecture.
• Native (monolithic, i.e. all processor cores on a single die) quad- and octo-core processors[8]
• The following caches:
  • 32 KB L1 instruction and 32 KB L1 data cache per core
  • 256 KB L2 cache per core
  • 2–3 MB L3 cache per core shared by all cores
• 33 % more in-flight micro-ops than Conroe[9]
• Second-level branch predictor and second-level Translation Lookaside Buffer[9]
• Modular blocks of components such as cores that can be added and subtracted for varying market segments[10]

[edit] Performance and power improvements

It has been reported that Nehalem will have a focus on performance, which accounts for the increased core size.[11] Compared to Penryn, Nehalem will have:

• 1.1x to 1.25x the single-threaded performance or 1.2x to 2x the multithreaded performance at the same power level
• 30 % lower power usage for the same performance
• According to a preview from AnandTech "expect a 20–30 % overall advantage over Penryn with only a 10 % increase in power usage. It looks like Intel is on track to delivering just that in Q4."[12]
• Core-wise, clock-for-clock, Nehalem will provide a 15–20 % increase in performance compared to Penryn.[13]

PC Watch found that a Nehalem "Gainestown" processor has 1.6x the SPECint_rate2006 integer performance and 2.4x the SPECfp_rate_2006 floating-point performance of a 3.0 GHz Xeon X5365 "Clovertown" quad-core processor.[11]
A 2.93 GHz Nehalem "Bloomfield" system has been used to run a 3DMark Vantage benchmark and gave a CPU score of 17,966.[14] The 2.66 GHz variant scores 16,294. A 2.4 GHz Core 2 Duo E6600 scores 4,300.[15]
AnandTech tested the Intel QuickPath Interconnect ("QPI", 4.8 GT/s version) and found the copy bandwidth using triple-channel 1066 MHz DDR3 was 12.0 GB/s. A 3.0 GHz Core 2 Quad system using dual-channel 1066 MHz DDR3 achieved 6.9 GB/s.[16]
Overclocking will be possible with Bloomfield processors and the X58 chipset. The Lynnfield processor will use a PCH removing the need for a northbridge chipset.[17]
The Nehalem processors are the first to incorporate the SSE 4.2 SIMD instructions, adding 7 new instructions to the SSE 4.1 set available in the Core 2 series.