Vista Backup

[iamc3k]

I'm looking for a bit of help with my backup settings.

My machine is running Vista64 Ultimate. I have two hard-drives, both 1TB. They are labelled C: and D: The OS and ALL my files are on C. I use D only for backups.

(Because I've had to reinstall due to a hard-drive failure and then I found out that Acronis did not work, I also have an external hard-drive, 1TB, which is also used only for backups on an intermittent schedule. Yeah, I should be better about it.)

My C drive is about half full. The D drive is totally full. Because the D drive is full, Vista will not make any automatic backups. My solution was to delete all the files on D, perform a quick format, and then go into the Backup Status and Configuration window and perform a Complete PC Backup.

The issues:

1. After performing a quick format, I did NOT reboot. The Complete PC Backup stated the backup COULD be an incremental backup. How do I wipe out all traces of any previous backup and make a totally new, fresh Complete PC Backup?

2. How do I schedule an Complete PC Backup on a regular cycle?

3. How do I enable the Complete PC Backup to delete older backups so that my D drive will not overflow?

4. Is the existance of an EXTRA Complete PC Backup on an external hard-drive causing confusing issues for the OS?

5. I am totally confused about the difference between "Back Up Files" and "Complete PC Backup". If I select "Back Up Files" I have the option of adjusting the settings for it. In Windows 7 I get the option to allow the OS to manage the files so that older ones can be deleted to make space for newer files. Does Vista allow that?

6. What is the difference, in event of C drive failure, in having "Back Up Files" (with ALL files backed up) versus a "Complete PC Backup" on drive D?

7. I have another machine on my home network running Windows7/64. It also has multiple hard-drives with all files and OS on just the C drive. Is there any way to run one machine's backup onto the other's hard-drive D?

My goal is to have a totally hands free method of my machine backing itself up so that a C drive failure can be recovered with a minimum of work. The external hard-drives are something I'd like to use about once a month as a backstop to the automatic method.

Thanks for any help!

Ken

 

[tom982]

Hello iamc3k and welcome back to the forums

Let's just clear a few things up before we begin:

You say acronis didn't work, what do you mean by this? I use acronis and I love it, it has all of the features you talk about wanting

You want to completely wipe a partition (D:\)?

Tom

 

[iamc3k]

tom982,

Thanks for the reply.

Hello iamc3k and welcome back to the forums

Let's just clear a few things up before we begin:

You say acronis didn't work, what do you mean by this? I use acronis and I love it, it has all of the features you talk about wanting

I'd used acronis for years. When I built my Vista64 machine, I continued to use acronis. A true test would've been to remove the C drive and see if my backup drive (D) could rebuild my system on new C drive. I never did that test. I blithely continued to update acronis and allow it to create backup. When my C drive failed (evidenced by greater and greater OS corruption and various attempts to rebuild the missing OS files), I found that none of my acronis backups were usable. In fact, the acronis boot disk wouldn't work without the C drive - which was inoperable. I spent some time with acronis tech support. I was very dissatisfied.

I am sceptical of acronis. My machine is an intel q6600 on an abit Ip-35 pro with Sata drives. From what I've read, acronis only works with ide drives. Shrug. I have Vista, I don't want to buy a 3rd party software to perform a function advertised by the OS.

You want to completely wipe a partition (D:\)?

Tom

You say "partition". Just to be clear, this is a totally separate, physically different, hard-drive. I don't want to delete the drive. I want to delete any record of any backup on it. I want Vista to think that it has never backed itself up onto that drive.

One of my (many) points of confusion regard the terminology within the Vista Backup Status and Configuration menu. I can choose "Back Up Files" and select "Change backup settings. Adjust your current backup settings or start a new, full backup." How is that different than "Complete PC Backup"?

Thanks,
Ken

 

[tom982]

Okay, I understand. As far as I'm aware the Windows backup doesn't have the functionality to remove older backups as newer ones are created, so you will have to do this manually. It's not hard at all, it just involves deleting a folder now and then

Sorry, I didn't mean to say partition But either way you've told me what I would like to know. Is there anything else on this drive apart from your backups?

Complete PC backup makes an image of your whole drive (personal files, programs, windows files etc.) so that you can restore to it at a later date. There are many 3rd party programs out there that will do this job in a better and more efficient way. Acronis being one of these, and the other being Macrium Reflect:

Macrium Reflect FREE Edition - Information and download

What I would suggest is that you use the "Back Up Files" feature in Windows, but don't use the complete PC backup and don't create a system image if it asks you to during the backup process. Set that to backup every weekend or so and then use Macrium to make an image of your system every month or so. This way your files will always be backed up and, in the event of a system failure, you will have an image to restore to which saves you the hassle of reinstalling Windows and all of your programs.

Tom

 

[whs]

And if you go the Macrium route (which works like a charm), here is a video tutorial I made (it is the same for Win7, Vista and XP). If you have more questions about scheduling, post back. It is easy.

Imaging with free Macrium - Windows 7 Forums

And here is a short written version from the Vista Forum: http://www.vistax64.com/software/261727-image-your-system-free-macrium.html

 

[tom982]

And if you go the Macrium route (which works like a charm), here is a video tutorial I made (it is the same for Win7, Vista and XP). If you have more questions about scheduling, post back. It is easy.

Imaging with free Macrium - Windows 7 Forums

And here is a short written version from the Vista Forum: http://www.vistax64.com/software/261727-image-your-system-free-macrium.html

Wolfgang, just our of curiosity, why didn't you make that into a tutorial? It's a really good write up with nice clear instructions

 

[iamc3k]

tom982 and whs,

Thanks for taking the time to post. Whs, I appreciate the links. I'll look at them shortly. I found that PCWorld recommends Macrium, as well. (I hadn't heard of it before. Shrug.)

What is the benefit of performing file backups vice updated images? Is the only benefit one of saving time for the backup? (The trade-off seems to be more time to restore.) Additionally, it seems that Vista/W7's file backup does NOT include the many programs I've installed. Is that correct?

Off to view the links...

Thanks,
Ken

 

[tom982]

I would suggest that you do both, file backups are nice and easy to do. If you delete files accidentally then it's very easy to recover them. Making an image is protection against major system failure (software, not hardware), for example if you accidentally delete a core Windows file - I am currently helping another member here who has done just this, if he had an image then there would be no problem as we could restore his whole computer to a previous date. Not quite, making an image is in fact faster than backing up your files as it doesn't have to sift through what to back up and what not to - okay this isn't entirely correct, Macrium won't include your temporary internet files etc. in your image, but I hope you see what I'm getting at

I've only got the one image stored on my external hard drive (I would make more, but I've run out of disk space!) and I made this image right after I reinstalled Windows 7, updated it and installed my anti virus. If something goes wrong with Windows, rather than going through the hassle of reinstalling Windows and updating it all, I can just use my image.

That is correct, Windows Backup and Restore Centre will only backup your files. You can specify for it to backup any folders which aren't included by default, but this wont work for your program files as they all depend on so many registry keys etc.

The bottom line is that I would suggest weekly backups of your files using Windows Backup and Restore Centre, combined with monthly system images with Macrium

If you've got any further questions, please feel free to ask

Tom

 

[richc46]

May I expand a bit on Toms great suggestion.
Make an image now and put it away, forget about it.
Once a month on another drive make an image and keep it current.
If you ever have a situation that your last back up has a virus or other problem, you still have the original.
In my case I made the back up right after the first install and put it away. I have monthly current images on another hard drive.

 

[whs]

I have a few comments:

1. @TOM, I really do not know why I did not make the Vista version into a tutorial (guess I was too lazy). But I made the Video tutorial on the Win7 forum. And since the operation of Macrium is the same in XP, Vista and Win7, I thought it would cover it.

2. @iamc3k, as a first rule of thumb you do not want to use any Windows facilities for backup or imaging (sorry Tom). They can be a real pain in the neck.

For user files, just copy then to your backup device. For images, use free Macrium or free Paragon.

Installed programs you can only backup with images. There is more to it than just the program files (registry entries, .dlls, etc.)

I would not worry about the time it takes to make an image. All of the imaging can run in the background whilst you do other tasks.

A smart setup is to put all user files into a data partition. Then you can image that independent of the system. I would also enable restore points on the data partition. From the restore points of the system partition or the data partition you can also recover data with Shadow Explorer.

3. @Rich, I thought monthly images may be cutting it short. You may loose a lot of things you have done in the interim. At one time I made daily images - but that may be an overkill. Now I make one every 3 days. But I recommend at least once per week - and alternate the output media. I use 1 internal and 2 external disks. One of those is always shut off when I am not imaging.

 

[richc46]

I have a few comments:

1. @TOM, I really do not know why I did not make the Vista version into a tutorial (guess I was too lazy). But I made the Video tutorial on the Win7 forum. And since the operation of Macrium is the same in XP, Vista and Win7, I thought it would cover it.

2. @iamc3k, as a first rule of thumb you do not want to use any Windows facilities for backup or imaging (sorry Tom). They can be a real pain in the neck.

For user files, just copy then to your backup device. For images, use free Macrium or free Paragon.

Installed programs you can only backup with images. There is more to it than just the program files (registry entries, .dlls, etc.)

I would not worry about the time it takes to make an image. All of the imaging can run in the background whilst you do other tasks.

A smart setup is to put all user files into a data partition. Then you can image that independent of the system. I would also enable restore points on the data partition. From the restore points of the system partition or the data partition you can also recover data with Shadow Explorer.

3. @Rich, I thought monthly images may be cutting it short. You may loose a lot of things you have done in the interim. At one time I made daily images - but that may be an overkill. Now I make one every 3 days. But I recommend at least once per week - and alternate the output media. I use 1 internal and 2 external disks. One of those is always shut off when I am not imaging.

I dont make many changes. I dont really care about a few settings etc.

 

[whs]

I guess it depends how active you are and where the activities occur.. That is one more reason I like to seperate system and data. Then I can make the images depending on the activities. In my case changes to the system and installed programs are much more frequent than changes in the data.

 

[iamc3k]

Guys, this is great information. I'd like to have automatic backups. It seems that Macrium v4, which is free, does not have the ability to perform automatic backups. Is that true?

If I go with Macrium v5, for 4 machines, can I schedule backups across my network, as well as on external hard-drives? For example, can Computer A create a backup on Computer B (a complete image), Computer B put its backup on Computer C, etc? As well as Computer A creating a backup, automatically, on external drive 1?

How versatile is Macrium?

Thanks,
Ken

 

[whs]

It seems that Macrium v4, which is free, does not have the ability to perform
automatic backups. Is that true?

Not true. Right click on any of your XML definition files and you will see "Schedule".

As far as I am aware, the images have to be created from the system from which you want to image a partition. I have never tried to image from another system on the network and doubt that it would work.

 

[iamc3k]

Sorry for the confusion. I would like to have computer B image itself, but store the image on a hard-drive on computer C. That way the hard-drive is not on the same computer. (The drive would only be used for the image of computer B.)

Playing with Macrium on one of my machines right now. The VBS scripting is the next thing to try to understand. I'd prefer drop down menus myself...

 

[iamc3k]

An update: Macrium Reflect doesn't work.

Macrium offers a free version, v4.2, and the latest, v5.0, for purchase. Before giving them my money I gave 4.2 a try.

I downloaded it, checked for updates, imaged my C drive and then FAILED to find the image I'd just made.

My computer has 3 hard-drives, all using SATA connections directly to the motherboard. I also have 2 disk drives, also connected via SATA to the motherboard. They are formatted using NTFS with AHCI enabled in the BIOS. I have NO RAID enabled. Each hard-drive is assigned it's own letter. They are not sub-partitioned.

So, physical drive 1 is C. Physical drive 2 is D. Physical drive 3 is E. Optical disk drive 1 is R (blu_R_ay). Optical disk drive 2 is V (D_V_D).

I dedicate drive D totally and solely to backups of C. (E has a 2 Gb of data which hasn't been used in months.) Each drive is 1 Tb.

Using the Macrium v4.2 wizard I created an image of C and put it on D. (I deleted EVERYTHING from D first.) Using the Macrium v4.2 wizard I created a boot CD. The options were Linux or BartPE. According to the wizard, BartPE can ONLY be used for XP or Server 2003. My machine cannot even access the BartPE options in Macrium. My boot CD was therefore based on linux.

I rebooted with the created boot CD. It booted just fine. However, my disk structure was incorrect. It only showed one hard-drive, C, and both optical drives. It labeled them "D" and "E". My other hard-drives were missing. Since the image was on one of the missing hard-drives, the boot CD was worthless.

I then created a second boot CD using Macrium's "advanced" options which enabled greater compatibility for hardware. There was no difference. My machine booted, but the boot CD only saw my C hard-drive and my two optical disk drives. The image stored on my D drive was not accessible.

Macrium offers a WindowsPE boot CD option, but I've got to purchase the software first. Um, why would I purchase something that hasn't worked?

Any of the Macrium supporters here ever see my issues and have a workaround?

Thanks,
Ken

 

[iamc3k]

An update:

The Macrium RescueCD could not recognize either of my 2 backup hard-drives because I had them formatted as GPT rather than MBR. (Supposedly v5 supports GPT recognition; I've reformatted as MBR.)

Thanks,
Ken