Solved Update for Microsoft Security Essentials - 4.9.218.0 (KB3140527)

[albertz]

After installing the optional KB3118401 I attempted a second installation of Microsoft Security Essentials - 4.9.218.0 (KB3140527).

The installation was successful and never prompted to re-boot.

After a re-boot to determine any problems, the bootup was much slower before the login menu appeared. During bootup and login I remember a "Preparing Desktop" message, after-which a black screen appeared. 15 plus minutes looking at a black screen with little disk activity I attempted another re-boot and login with similar results.

After performing a system restore with successful login, everything is back to the way it was with MSE 4.8.

My opinion is there is some sort of compatibility issue during login, while loading the Windows Desktop Manager, processes and services.. This is an older IBM PC, that's never exhibited any problems in the past. MSE 4.9 was working ok immediately after installation and before rebooting.

I can't say the problem is specifically with Windows Vista. It's possibly there is some sort of compatibility issue with my installation such as hardware / video drivers and/or processes and services during login. However I'm not ruling out some sort of OS compatibility conflict.

 

[townsbg]

During one of my several system restores due to this problem, I twice tried Windows Vista repair tool on the Vista Operating System CD, but the tool reported that it could not find anything to repair.

There are different repair options in that guide including a repair install. I suggest that you go through them in order.

 

[JEFRAY]

Well I have hidden the update, but the number of problem reports still seems fairly small for an update released two days ago.

A question for those who have actually seem this problem: Did you also install the optional KB3118401 (published February 15)?

So now all of a sudden today this KB3118401 shows up in my Important updates ? Anyway i'm not going to run this update and try KB3140527 again until someone figures out whats going on. I can't afford for my system to be down right because its tax season and I am a tax preparer :D

 

[Vistaar]

First, I want to welcome all the new members who have joined the forum because of this unfortunate problem. Another issue of much concern to Vista users now is the increasing scarcity of browsers that support Vista, e.g. http://www.vistax64.com/browsers-ma...top-receiving-google-chrome-updates-soon.html.

Getting back to the problem at hand: Although there have been a couple of problem reports by Windows 7 users, it looks more and more like the black screen after logon issue is exclusive to Vista. There are even Windows 7 users who insist that there is nothing wrong with the MSE 4.9 update. If there is any Vista user who has had no problem with the update, then we would very much like to hear from you! As for myself, I am avoiding this update like the plague. For the time being, I can't see any reason not to continue using MSE 4.8. It's less than a year old, and independent tests have found it to be considerably more effective than earlier versions, whereas any advantages of 4.9 remain to be demonstrated. Of course in the longer term, there will either have to be some resolution or we will have to turn to third-party antivirus solutions.

It seems that there is one notable addition to the MSE 4.9 GUI: The Settings tab now has an Administrator -> Turn on this app setting that can be deselected (see MSE update to 4.9 - Security | DSLReports Forums). One Vista user suffering from this problem has found that turning off MSE in Safe Mode makes it possible to log into Windows normally, albeit without any virus protection from MSE (see Windows Vista x64 BKSOD after login or no access in normal mode - suspect MSE - Windows Vista - and BTW I'm concerned about the age of the removal tool that was recommended there).

 

[computerchaos]

I too had this issue when trying to install MSE update, boot was extremely slow. (not much free space, slow anyway, this made it twice as slow!) log in screen was not there and it said preparing your desktop please wait. Then when log in did appear it wouldn't log in and eventually black screened. No sound when boot happened, usually there is obvious sound. I only got back into my system by main hard drive boot and safe mode start then system restore which is where I found that recent install to be the issue so I stop it from installing while allowing the optional 64bit vista update that stated to solve windows issues. It installed successfully. My logs show that the MSE installed successfully also but obviously it did not as it is still available for download in the update center. I agree with following use of the old program 4.8 as it is still working fine on my system and I have just ran a most recent scan today without issue. Thanks for posting! If I encounter further error, I'll post back as well

 

[computerchaos]

I too had this issue when trying to install MSE update, boot was extremely slow. (not much free space, slow anyway, this made it twice as slow!) log in screen was not there and it said preparing your desktop please wait. Then when log in did appear it wouldn't log in and eventually black screened. No sound when boot happened, usually there is obvious sound. I only got back into my system by main hard drive boot and safe mode start then system restore which is where I found that recent install to be the issue so I stopped it from installing while allowing the optional 64bit vista update that stated "to solve windows issues." It installed successfully. My logs show that the MSE installed successfully also but obviously it did not as it is still available for installation in the update center. I agree with following the use of the old program 4.8 as it is still working fine on my system and I have just ran a most recent scan today without issue. Thanks for posting! If I encounter further error, I'll post back as well

 

[townsbg]

I'll think that I'll skip it on Vista and probably on 7 as well.

 

[NigelPH]

There are different repair options in that guide including a repair install. I suggest that you go through them in order.

I did try all the different repair options available on the CD.

I have restored my system to MSE 4.8 and I shall hide the MSE 4.9 update request as others have suggested.

 

[townsbg]

There are different repair options under that guide. Have you tried them all?

 

[NigelPH]

There are different repair options under that guide. Have you tried them all?

I posted previously that I had tried all repair options available on my recovery CD.

I have reverted to MSE 4.8 and hidden updates to MSE 4.9.

 

[townsbg]

I didn't ask about the repair options on the cd but on the guide. Has the issue been resolved? If nothing else there is a repair install.

 

[townsbg]

I am wondering if those experiencing problems with the newer version of MSE don't have enough ram or processing power.

 

[albertz]

Windows Vista requires fewer system resources than Windows 10 and 8.

IMO, my problem is with the MSE 4.9 and not the Vista OS and hardware requirements. My Vista installation works well with larger applications that require more system resources, cpu time and memory.

 

[matt4x4]

Is this a worthwhile program to install on a fresh install of Vista on a new SSD hard drive?

I did have it on my original WD 7200rpm hard drive which would automatically scan every day at 2am.

I also installed Malwarebytes free version, also CCleaner which I use a lot to wipe clean internet browsing data, and clean up registry errors.

Is there any other security programs I should be using, I have my ISP cable router, which my computer is now hardwired into on port 2, hooked into the port 1 slot is a new ASUS "3 antenna" wireless (2.4GHz & 5GHz) router which the house uses (PS4, 3 to 4 Phones (all apple except one android), two iPads, two TV's, SONO's wifi music,

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I had issues updating windows (196 updates in total), would hang for hours on one. Reboot, try again - did that several times it worked. Graphics wouldnt install due to Windows updating - waited and worked. DVD/CD's would hang on driver install - went to website and installed and it worked.

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I'm running 4 Gigs and an Intel 2.13 Ghz Dual processor. I've removed or disabled all unnecessary services and processes. Some of the softwares install unnecessary services and processes that potentially bog down an Operating System.

I am running similar, what services and processes are unnecessary?
BTW I just did a fresh install of Vista 64bit onto a new SSD. All updates completed. I want to fine tune it now.

 

[albertz]

This thread is mainly concerned with the update Microsoft Security Essentials - 4.9.218.0 (KB3140527).

However, I'll try to cover some of your questions, which can be better answered and addressed from related thread topics.

Is this a worthwhile program to install on a fresh install of Vista on a new SSD hard drive?
I did have it on my original WD 7200rpm hard drive which would automatically scan every day at 2am.

I don't know. There are various articles online that address problems with SSD drives and Windows Vista.

6 Things You Shouldn?t Do With Solid-State Drives
Is it worth it to install a SSD in a Vista laptop?: PC Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review
Guide - SSD performance tweaks for Vista | bit-tech.net

I also installed Malwarebytes free version, also CCleaner which I use a lot to wipe clean internet browsing data, and clean up registry errors.

I would not install other malware, antivirus or firewall until you have the PC up and running with MSE and all the MS Windows softwares installed and working. There is installation documentation that states what sort of softwares need to be removed before MSE installation.

Is there any other security programs I should be using, I have my ISP cable router, which my computer is now hardwired into on port 2, hooked into the port 1 slot is a new ASUS "3 antenna" wireless (2.4GHz & 5GHz) router which the house uses (PS4, 3 to 4 Phones (all apple except one android), two iPads, two TV's, SONO's wifi music,

I don't know, would need more detailed system specifications to make any recommendations.

I had issues updating windows (196 updates in total), would hang for hours on one. Reboot, try again - did that several times it worked. Graphics wouldnt install due to Windows updating - waited and worked. DVD/CD's would hang on driver install - went to website and installed and it worked.

Available download from the MS site is version 4.8 ... version 4.9 is currently only offered through the Windows Update.

If you want to alleviate problems with updates, don't update a Windows OS all at once. What to do is first select a number of older updates, install and reboot. Such as e.g. ms .net , if I think there's going to be .net installation problems I first install older versions of .net, then reboot.

When installing many Windows updates with a history that dates back a ways, it's better to sequentially update, starting with the earliest updates, combined in segments. Then keep rebooting your PC after each segmented update, until all updates are installed to the present.

 

[Vistaar]

Is this a worthwhile program...Is there any other security programs I should be using

Well matt4x4, I would've recommended MSE to you right up until albertz started this thread 4 days ago, but now I'm not so sure. I am still running 4.8 at the moment, and it can still be downloaded, and it has proven to be better than earlier versions. The engine and definitions are the same as Windows Defender on Windows 8 and 10. On the other hand, it is more than 9 months old, and this 4.9 update debacle suggests that Microsoft has better things to think about than how well MSE works on Vista. I should also point out that independent labs haven't actually conducted tests on Vista in several years. (Vista users who actually look at reports by the independent labs should probably pay particular attention to tests conducted on Windows 7.) As for alternative AV products, we have some forum members who always recommend Avast, but I haven't tried it myself. If you want to start a lengthy discussion, it would probably be best to start a new thread in the System Security forum. I tried to resurrect one about a year ago when I was a newbie here, but it didn't catch fire: http://www.vistax64.com/system-security/303097-free-security-software.html.

 

[Vistaar]

Interestingly enough, one MSE user running 64-bit Vista seems not to have suffered from the black screen after logon, but does have an issue opening Firefox: http://www.vistax64.com/general-discussion/304405-temporay-lockup-after-boot-lockup.html.

I was also surprised to discover that my MSE engine version has recently changed from 1.1.12400.0 to 1.1.12505.0, even though my client version is most definitely still 4.8.204.0. Apparently the engine version in Help > About is determined by definition updates. So what's so important about KB3140527? Aside from one new setting in the GUI that allows disabling by administrators, who knows?

 

[Vistaar]

Here's a post saying this problem on Vista involves the ShellHWDetection service: http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...611e10b-2193-44f1-af5b-d544185f7abf#LastReply.

I've been reading about past cases of black screen after login. It seems that Eset antivirus caused a similar problem three years ago: Eset causes desktop to not load | Wilders Security Forums.

 

[Vistaar]

One Vista system suffering from black screen after login was subjected to a thorough analysis at Geeks to Go: Windows will only start in safe mode. - Virus, Spyware, Malware Removal. It seems safe to say that the problem wasn't caused by malware. The Event Viewer log in post #22 of that thread is worthy of attention. This system was perhaps not an ideal candidate for analysis because Avast was also installed. Then again, perhaps the obvious question needs to be asked:

Is it possible that everyone who reported black screen after login was using other real-time protection in addition to MSE?

As noted in post #37 above, there are MSE users running 64-bit Vista who did not suffer black screen after login as a result of the MSE 4.9 update. Here's another instance: Removed Trojan and several PUPs found by Malwarebytes but having odd problems - Am I infected? What do I do?. If I find one such case involving 32-bit Vista, I might restore the hidden update and install it myself.

There is still no Microsoft article about MSE 4.9.218.0 in particular, but there is a recent article about System Center 2012 Endpoint Protection. Its anti-malware client has also been updated to 4.9.218.0: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3106514.

 

[Vistaar]

Attn: Microsoft Security Essentials now upgraded to 4.9.218.0 without any issues

I have two theories about the issue reported in this thread and I'm still not certain which is correct:

(1) Vista's clunky Windows Update Client bungled the MSE upgrade. Windows 7 was perhaps immune because Microsoft has bestowed updates to their Windows Update Client that Vista did not get.

(2) Those affected were all using third-party antivirus solutions that went haywire when the update reactivated MSE. I can't think of any reason why Windows 7 would be immune, which is why I tend to favor theory (1) or a combination of both.

About my system: No real-time protection other than MSE 4.8 was installed. Internet Explorer 9 (which is the only possible version still supported by Microsoft) was installed and fully updated, but Firefox 45.0.1 is the default browser, Chrome not installed. Running sfc /scannow finds no integrity violations.

These are the unorthodox steps I took to upgrade MSE to 4.9 - but if you are using a third-party antivirus, it would actually make more sense to uninstall MSE than to try this:

1. Create a restore point.
2. Set Windows Update to "download updates but let me choose whether to install them."
3. Restore the hidden update KB3140527. Windows Update will automatically check for updates.
4. Take note of the file size (the 32-bit version is 7.2 MB). Close Windows Update without installing.
5. Navigate to C:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution\Download and look for a file that is the right size.



6. Copy the file to your desktop and rename it MSEUpdate.exe (or most anything as long as it's .exe).
7. Right-click and run as administrator. If you selected the right file, the MSE Upgrade Installation Wizard opens.
8. Click Upgrade, then Finish.



9. Windows Update still reports an important update to install. Check for updates again to correct that. The update will not appear in your update history, but you now have MSE 4.9.



I have restarted the PC twice since then, no black screen of death, no issues of any kind. Were these additional steps really necessary? I'm not sure, since I hid the update a month ago rather than installing it normally.