Solved Update for Microsoft Security Essentials - 4.9.218.0 (KB3140527)

Jody Thornton

Power User
Windows Vista requires fewer system resources than Windows 10 and 8.

I can't agree with that at all. By no means should Vista, Windows 7 or 8x be run with 1 GB of RAM for example, but 7/8/10 cope with that constraint MUCH better. Vista really is a pig. With 3 GB+ you're fine, but it is a pig
 

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Vistaar

Vista Guru
AV-Test Institute recently posted results of February 2016 tests conducted on Windows 7 32 bit, however the tests still featured Microsoft Security Essentials 4.8.204.0. Note that Microsoft has regained the certification that it lost in 2012: https://www.av-test.org/en/antivirus/home-windows/manufacturer/microsoft/windows-7/. MSE's strong point is detection of widespread and prevalent malware exceeding the industry average of 99 percent. Its weak point is protection against zero-day threats for which no definition is available, as a result of which its overall protection score remains relatively low - but false positives are correspondingly rare.

Meanwhile, AV-Comparatives is currently conducting real-world protection tests on Windows 7 64 bit. They have already posted a PDF Factsheet of February 2016 results, but again MSE 4.8 was still featured. However the Factsheet says "latest version at time of testing," so they will presumably switch to MSE 4.9.218.0 as testing continues - meaning we might see some test results for the 4.9 upgrade as soon as next month.

For all I know, I could be the only person who is now using MSE 4.9 on 32-bit Vista - or there could be thousands more like me, since most people only visit forums when they have a problem. Feedback would be appreciated!
 

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townsbg

~~тσωηsвg~~
Vista Guru
Gold Member
I never updated on Vista or 7.
 

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Vistaar

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MSE 4.9.218.0 is now available for download: Microsoft Security Essentials - Microsoft Windows. The download page still mentions Windows Vista as being supported, and in fact I have been using the new client version for about two weeks without any black screen of death. The only problem I have noticed is a number of MpTelemetry problem reports of the ScanFile variety:

Problem signature
Problem Event Name: MpTelemetry
Problem Signature 01: 2152759308
Problem Signature 02: unspecified
Problem Signature 03: ScanFile
Problem Signature 04: 4.9.218.0
Problem Signature 05: Microsoft Security Essentials (EDB4FA23-53B8-4AFA-8C5D-99752CCA7094)
Problem Signature 06: unspecified
Problem Signature 07: unspecified
OS Version: 6.0.6002.2.2.0.768.3
Locale ID: 1033
Files that help describe the problem
client_manifest.xml

As the name suggests, these problem reports occur during scans (but not every time). Nothing in the MSE GUI suggests that these scans were unsuccessful. Especially puzzling: These problems are not being reported to Microsoft even though Problem Reports and Solutions is set to "automatically check for solutions and send additional information, if needed." Thoughts anyone?

It looks like AV-Comparatives was still using MSE 4.8 in March, but Microsoft performed better in the real-world protection tests than it did in February. MSE also passed a certification test based on AMTSO's real-time threat list: AV-Comparatives Certification Test - AV-Comparatives. It may be that MSE's performance has much more to do with definition/engine updates than the client version. Speaking of which, the engine version has changed at least one more time since post #37, and is currently 1.1.12603.0.
 

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Vistaar

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Bad news for those who suffered black screen after login following update KB3140527: I've seen a report that the same thing happened after installing the full download of MSE 4.9.218.0 that was posted last week.

It cannot be stated categorically that MSE 4.9 is incompatible with Vista because there are a number of MSE users running Vista who did not suffer the black screen issue, including me. I elected to try an unusual method of installation; but for all I know, the black screen issue might not have occurred on my system in any event. Theories anyone?
 

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townsbg

~~тσωηsвg~~
Vista Guru
Gold Member
My theory is that they didn't fully vet 4.9 on Vista before releasing it because they don't care about Vista or it's users anymore. As for me I haven't tried it on either 7 or Vista.
 

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Vistaar

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My theory is that they didn't fully vet 4.9 on Vista before releasing it because they don't care about Vista or it's users anymore. As for me I haven't tried it on either 7 or Vista.
I was hoping for theories about why the black screen issue affected many Vista systems but not others. For all we know, there might be a silent majority of MSE users running Vista who are oblivious to this issue. But speaking of Microsoft, I came across reports of another MSE debacle in April 2014, soon after Microsoft ended support for XP: Bug in Microsoft Security Essentials Crashes Windows XP Machines.

Despite frequent scanning, it's been a week since I had a ScanFile problem report running MSE 4.9. (BTW I have a number of problem reports dating back to MSE 4.8, mostly related to failed definition updates - something that hasn't happened yet with 4.9.) I don't actually believe in frequent scanning - just testing out the latest client version here. Visits to Feature Settings Check for Desktop Solutions » AMTSO suggest that the all-important real-time protection is in working order:

Detected Threats.JPG
 

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Vistaar

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Well I finally know that I'm not the only one using MSE 4.9 on 32-bit Vista without the dreaded black screen after login. (It's been known for two months that some people using MSE on 64-bit Vista were unaffected.) I came across this in a thread started by someone having trouble installing MSE definition updates on an XP system: Re: MSE Latest Definition Update Seems Corrupted - Microsoft | DSLReports Forums.

In all probability, the method of installation outlined in post #40 had nothing to do with my success. It is much more likely that affected systems and unaffected systems differ in some particular that I could only guess -- especially since no one with an affected system has actually posted here since the end of February. Third-party security software still seems to be the most likely culprit in my opinion.
 

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townsbg

~~тσωηsвg~~
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Gold Member
You think that some people with the problem have multiple AVs? It is a well known fact that multiple, active AVs tend to cause problems.
 

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roarhe

Member
"...For all I know, I could be the only person who is now using MSE 4.9 on 32-bit Vista - or there could be thousands more like me, since most people only visit forums when they have a problem. Feedback would be appreciated![/QUOTE]

I have ran into this problem recently. (I run Vista 32 bit on a kind of 'single purpose machine' in a company network, where this pc is used to receive and store scanned documents from a 'MP' printer/scanner - and without automatic/regularly update from win update - thus this have not been done after february update....)
Found out myself that MSE was causing the problem from task manager window, starting services halted on MSE ... Managed to start in safe mode, but for some or other reason, there was no restore point (!) even when 'wupdate' reported "creating a restore point" meanwhile running update (anyone else experienced the same?).
It is not allowed to uninstall MSE from safe mode ... and it is not allowed to stop and disable the MSE in services ...
The only way out seemed to be delete/rename files in the MSE directory .... (?! ) - that way the MSE did not start at the next restart - and I was up running normal. Tried windows update once more, but the same result, halting on MSE services startup.

Have read this thread from start (but not all) and the last entries. Seems to be the most suggested solution to reinstall the 4.8 version - - but now it is apparently not anymore available from the (in february) mentioned download link, there is only 4.9.218 .... Have searched other pc's in my network, but the old installer seems to be gone everywhere. Do anyone have a link to where this could be downloaded, please? I would prefer to reinstall this before going further investigating other possible incompatibilities in the system causing the 4.9 version not to run.
 

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townsbg

~~тσωηsвg~~
Vista Guru
Gold Member
I found a link for the prerelease (4.8.0203.0) still on Microsoft's website. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=29942 I still get 4.8 updates through Windows update so maybe you'll be able to get back to the most recent version. There are also numerous third party sites if you wish to risk one of those. Who knows how long it will be before they stop doing 4.8 updates and then stop with the definition updates. At that time we will either need to go with 4.9 or find something else.
 

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Vistaar

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Seems to be the most suggested solution to reinstall the 4.8 version - - but now it is apparently not anymore available from the (in february) mentioned download link, there is only 4.9.218 .... Do anyone have a link to where this could be downloaded, please?

Welcome roarhe, I saved the 32-bit 4.8.204.0 installer and I'm sending you a private message. (In case anyone might wonder, I do not have the 64-bit version.) For the record, MSE 4.9 is not incompatible with Vista because I am using it.

The simplest way to disable MSE 4.9 is by deselecting the new Administrator > Turn on this app setting, which is the only obvious change in the MSE user interface. I've seen reports that it can be uninstalled in safe mode using Revo.
 
Last edited:

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roarhe

Member
Thank you ! Think this will do, for my purpose.
At least I will now have time to find other solutions for the scanning archives - have run into some kind of security settings in Win 7 that prevent the MPC to file to Win 7 folders - which has been the reason for keeping the Vista pc alive.
 

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Vistaar

Vista Guru
Don't forget to hide the update when it reappears. In order to do that, Windows Update must not be set to install updates automatically.
 

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roarhe

Member
Don't forget to hide the update when it reappears. In order to do that, Windows Update must not be set to install updates automatically.
I have as default not using automatic update on every pc under my control ... :-) But I didn't excpect this problem with a MSE update... Just to mention (even if this is a Vista forum) that I had this problem with a Win 7 pc also two months ago - - but I didn't realize what caused it before I now understood the Vista isssue ... :-(
 

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Vistaar

Vista Guru
I had this problem with a Win 7 pc also two months ago

You mean "black screen after login" in normal mode? You might be the only person to report that issue with Win 7 - in fact Win 7 users have rushed to the defense of MSE 4.9 when Vista users dared to suggest there was something wrong with it, e.g. MSE ( KB3140527 ) | Wilders Security Forums. Since I'm now using MSE 4.9 on Vista (and I'm not the only one, as I have pointed out on previous pages), I'm inclined to side with those Win 7 users. If another antivirus program was installed (or improperly uninstalled), there's your culprit. I recall at least two reports of "black screen" where Avast was installed. Malwarebytes Free is definitely not a problem because I have that installed for occasional scanning, but a "free trial" of Malwarebytes Premium with real-time protection might be a different story - and you can easily end up with Premium if you neglect to deselect the free trial while installing or updating Malwarebytes. Security software is not the only possible explanation, but there is nothing in this rather lengthy thread that eliminates it.
 

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roarhe

Member
You mean "black screen after login" in normal mode? You might be the only person to report that issue with Win 7 - in fact Win 7 users have rushed to the defense of MSE 4.9 when Vista users dared to suggest there was something wrong with it, e.g. MSE ( KB3140527 ) | Wilders Security Forums. Since I'm now using MSE 4.9 on Vista (and I'm not the only one, as I have pointed out on previous pages), I'm inclined to side with those Win 7 users. If another antivirus program was installed (or improperly uninstalled), there's your culprit. I recall at least two reports of "black screen" where Avast was installed. Malwarebytes Free is definitely not a problem because I have that installed for occasional scanning, but a "free trial" of Malwarebytes Premium with real-time protection might be a different story - and you can easily end up with Premium if you neglect to deselect the free trial while installing or updating Malwarebytes. Security software is not the only possible explanation, but there is nothing in this rather lengthy thread that eliminates it.

This is quite interesting... "Black screen with cursor" - even in safe mode, even in 640x480 mode ...(!) AND, this Win7 was installed from scratch with MAPS dowload - i.e. no preinstalled antivirus, and I have NOT used ANY other free NOR bought antivirus software on this Toshiba laptop... So, wondering what combination of other hardware/software have made this breakdown when upgrading MSE to 4.9 (OR - another of the updates as of March 8th....)
 

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Vistaar

Vista Guru
"Black screen with cursor" - even in safe mode
That does not sound like the same problem that many Vista users encountered after the MSE 4.9 upgrade. They were able to use safe mode in every reported case I have seen. You might want to try SevenForums. Keep in mind that the MSE 4.9 upgrade was published February 23. Only one question comes to mind at the moment: Was Internet Explorer 11 installed on the Win7 PC (and IE 9 on the Vista PC)? I'm thinking that MSE 4.9 might be intolerant of unsupported versions, which is just a hunch.
 

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roarhe

Member
That does not sound like the same problem that many Vista users encountered after the MSE 4.9 upgrade. They were able to use safe mode in every reported case I have seen. You might want to try SevenForums. Keep in mind that the MSE 4.9 upgrade was published February 23.
Ok, - however I did all cumulative upgrades/windows updates at that date in the same operation (at least I can not remember it as separate operations thinking on it now), so it is difficult to say, however I still believe that this would be something related to the MSE ... but cannot be reversed and verified any longer... Thank you for the tip about SevenForums, I will try that.
 

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Vistaar

Vista Guru
I am concerned about what I might be "missing" if I just ignore this update.

Nearly four months later, I can finally point to something besides the one new setting. AV-Comparatives is still conducting real-world protection tests on Windows 7 64 bit. Today they posted a PDF Factsheet of May 2016 results, and for the first time MSE 4.9 was the version listed as being tested. Comparing the May bar chart with those for the preceding months would suggest that MSE 4.9 is even more effective than the previous version: AV-Comparatives Real-World Protection Test - AV-Comparatives. For example, Microsoft clearly outperformed McAfee, which costs actual money (but their latest client version doesn't support Vista anyway).

We still don't really know why many Vista users suffered "black screen after login" after the upgrade was installed, but we do know that some Vista users did not suffer the issue, including me. If anyone would dare to try again, I would suggest that you download the 4.9 installer from the Microsoft website (keeping the update hidden), create a restore point (and preferably an image as well), uninstall 4.8, restart, then right-click the installer and run it as administrator. (Do not rely on Vista's glitchy Windows Update client to install your antivirus.) If you do get black screen after login, please try one thing before restoring your system: Disable the ShellHWDetection service and see if you can then log into Windows normally (in order to confirm someone's observation; see first link in post #38 - and do you have his problem report?).
 

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